NZ gun laws

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Awrrr
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#2200434 17-Mar-2019 21:07

networkn:

Rikkitic:

I hope the selfish pricks rushing out to buy weapons get absolutely hammered when the law is changed. I have been watching reports of those who have lost friends and loved ones. Most Kiwis are generous in their support and compassion, but some are despicable selfish jerks. Shame on them.

I am struggling to understand the link you are making here.

I was commenting on media reports of 'panic buying' of semi-automatic weapons in an apparent attempt to stock up on them before an anticipated law change that would presumably crack down on sale and possession of such weapons. I have to wonder what those who are doing this think they are achieving. Are they being clever and beating the system? Why do they think they need these kinds of weapons in the first place. I expressed the hope that anyone who does do this will be penalised for it after the law is changed. The reason the law is likely to be changed is to make it harder for a future madman to obtain one of these weapons. I have to wonder about the thinking or morality of anyone who feels a need to 'get around' that. I think it is very disrespectful of those who have lost someone in the shooting and very selfish as well, as anyone who does this is clearly only thinking of their needs or desires, though why anyone 'needs' a weapon like this is beyond me.

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clevedon

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#2200437 17-Mar-2019 21:13

Fred99:
clevedon:

I never mentioned any MSSA or anything about registering?

No you didn't - I did, because that's the probable extent of restrictions that will be sought (or possibly all semi-autos) - not as Mike suggested that all guns would need to be locked up at clubs etc.

There is no way ALL semi auto’s will be all lumped in together in any restrictions other than like every firearm will have to be registered.
If any, it will be only MSSA’s and owners that will get reclassified/restricted.

MikeB4

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#2200441 17-Mar-2019 21:24

Gun City with an advertising billboard still on a street in Christchurch showing kids firing a gun with the words "get your family outside" is disgusting, I would not care one bit if that company goes broke and closes.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Fred99

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#2200444 17-Mar-2019 21:28

clevedon:
Fred99:

clevedon:

I never mentioned any MSSA or anything about registering?

No you didn't - I did, because that's the probable extent of restrictions that will be sought (or possibly all semi-autos) - not as Mike suggested that all guns would need to be locked up at clubs etc.

There is no way ALL semi auto’s will be all lumped in together in any restrictions other than like every firearm will have to be registered.
If any, it will be only MSSA’s and owners that will get reclassified/restricted.

I wouldn't count on that.

That's not what they did in Aus, and what they did worked. Then there's this grey area over classification of types of semi automatics, the laws we had were clear, but a mass murderer just demonstrated that mass murderers don't care about obeying the law - they just want the best weapons they can get their hands on to carry out their heinous crimes. Removing some of what are effectively bolt-on parts from a MSSA so it meets classification as just an auto hunting rifle, but that's able to be turned back into a MSSA in a few minutes by someone planning another terrorist attack, thus defacto still allowing sMSSAs is nuts. But some gun lovers are nuts.

clevedon

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#2200449 17-Mar-2019 21:34

MikeB4:
Gun City with an advertising billboard still on a street in Christchurch showing kids firing a gun with the words "get your family outside" is disgusting, I would not care one bit if that company goes broke and closes.

I don’t think the largest gun store in the world is going to go broke and close anytime soon.

tdgeek

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#2200452 17-Mar-2019 21:41

MikeB4:

Gun City with an advertising billboard still on a street in Christchurch showing kids firing a gun with the words "get your family outside" is disgusting, I would not care one bit if that company goes broke and closes.

Gun City has been around a long time. I used to buy reloading supplies from him when he started out. The sign is bad now, but not so much before Friday. Target shooting is a sport, game shooting is a sport. Now of course things have changed.

Having said that, he is a hard arse. Spent time in a US jail for hiding a firearm in a suitcase. He's been in trouble before with Police. He should have removed the sign. But he is running a legal business, selling to genuine people, let's not forget that. Its still pretty darn raw for all of us. In his case, it didn't occur to him, but thats what David Tipple is like. His press conference tomorrow will be of interest. As to how he skirts this, and more to the point how a prominent firearms dealer reacts to a review of gun laws.

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MikeB4

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#2200455 17-Mar-2019 21:47

I place human life above the existence of a single business.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Fred99

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#2200457 17-Mar-2019 21:48

MikeB4:

Gun City with an advertising billboard still on a street in Christchurch showing kids firing a gun with the words "get your family outside" is disgusting, I would not care one bit if that company goes broke and closes.

The owner of Gun City displays flagrant disregard for the safety of others, he was caught driving his Audi clocked at 177km/hr, was so confrontational that the officer who stopped him let him go and called for backup, then shortly after was recorded travelling at 181 km/h on public roads. (link)

The owner of Gun City was jailed in the US for not even being able to comply with US gun laws (link)

If you ran the country, would you grant a person with that record a firearms license? How about rights to be the largest gun dealer in NZ?

Fred99

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#2200463 17-Mar-2019 21:54

tdgeek:

thats what David Tipple is like. His press conference tomorrow will be of interest.

Actually IMO the press should boycott it. He's trolling with that ad. The best thing to do with trolls is ignore them - if you can't ban them.

tdgeek

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#2200470 17-Mar-2019 22:04

Fred99:

tdgeek:

thats what David Tipple is like. His press conference tomorrow will be of interest.

Actually IMO the press should boycott it. He's trolling with that ad. The best thing to do with trolls is ignore them - if you can't ban them.

I think that would be wrong, for a number of reasons. Aside from the wild boy he has always been (and yes many always wondered how he kept intact with his flirting with Police over decades), he can't be condemned because he sells his product. His product is used by normal people.

BUT, if he plays hard ball he will alienate his industry, and thats not a bad thing, possibly indirectly make the gun review harsher for firearms owners. Should he say and do what's right, that would help a gun review progress.

He will make it or break it.

vulcannz

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#2200473 17-Mar-2019 22:08

Fred99:

hio77: The way I see it, banning semi autos or even ar 15s doesn't really fix this problem.

End of the day the guns used in the incident were modified in such a way that is not legal.

"Modified" WRT the AR15s was to simply buy a 30 round (or larger) magazine, which you can buy off the shelf from gun stores in NZ without holding a special category license, and practically no chance of being caught - unless you're very stupid.

In the wake of the Port Arthur Massacre (1996):

The Australian government “banned automatic and semiautomatic firearms, adopted new licensing requirements, established a national firearms registry, and instituted a 28-day waiting period for gun purchases. It also bought and destroyed more than 600,000 civilian-owned firearms, in a scheme that cost half a billion dollars and was funded by raising taxes.” The entire overhaul took just months to implement.

Between 1995 and 2006, gun-related homicides and suicides in the country dropped by 59 percent and 65 percent, respectively.

Just to clarify this. The drop in homicides has been long considered unrelated to the buyback program, it has been attributed to a crack down on gangs and organized crime which were the root cause of homicides. The bulk of the buybacks happened well after the homicide rate started to drop. Today Australia has a higher gun ownership per capita (depending on who's stats you believe), with claims gun ownership is higher than 1996 rates.

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Handle9

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#2200474 17-Mar-2019 22:12

tdgeek:

Fred99:

tdgeek:

thats what David Tipple is like. His press conference tomorrow will be of interest.

Actually IMO the press should boycott it. He's trolling with that ad. The best thing to do with trolls is ignore them - if you can't ban them.

I think that would be wrong, for a number of reasons. Aside from the wild boy he has always been (and yes many always wondered how he kept intact with his flirting with Police over decades), he can't be condemned because he sells his product. His product is used by normal people.

BUT, if he plays hard ball he will alienate his industry, and thats not a bad thing, possibly indirectly make the gun review harsher for firearms owners. Should he say and do what's right, that would help a gun review progress.

He will make it or break it.

If he had a clue he would see which way the wind is blowing. If he announced he had voluntarily stopped selling MSSA and the high capacity magazines (which is going to be illegal regardless of what he does) he would get a great deal of good press.

I don't think that he is that self aware.

Fred99

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#2200483 17-Mar-2019 22:20

vulcannz:

Fred99:

hio77: The way I see it, banning semi autos or even ar 15s doesn't really fix this problem.

End of the day the guns used in the incident were modified in such a way that is not legal.

"Modified" WRT the AR15s was to simply buy a 30 round (or larger) magazine, which you can buy off the shelf from gun stores in NZ without holding a special category license, and practically no chance of being caught - unless you're very stupid.

In the wake of the Port Arthur Massacre (1996):

The Australian government “banned automatic and semiautomatic firearms, adopted new licensing requirements, established a national firearms registry, and instituted a 28-day waiting period for gun purchases. It also bought and destroyed more than 600,000 civilian-owned firearms, in a scheme that cost half a billion dollars and was funded by raising taxes.” The entire overhaul took just months to implement.

Between 1995 and 2006, gun-related homicides and suicides in the country dropped by 59 percent and 65 percent, respectively.

Gun ownership rates in NZ are about one per 8 people, vs about 1 per

Just to clarify this. The drop in homicides has been long considered unrelated to the buyback program, it has been attributed to a crack down on gangs and organized crime which were the root cause of homicides. The bulk of the buybacks happened well after the homicide rate started to drop. Today Australia has a higher gun ownership per capita (depending on who's stats you believe), with claims gun ownership is higher than 1996 rates.

I've read the same thing but call BS on it, probably "attributed" by One Nation and other gun-crazy extremists.

Explain how crackdown on gangs/organised crime results in a reduction in suicide death by gun consistent with the reduction in homicide by gun?

Increase in gang/organised crime related deaths in Aus over the past decade can mostly be attributed to one simple thing - their phenomenal "ice", (aka crystal meth) epidemic.

Handle9

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#2200485 17-Mar-2019 22:26

Fred99:

tdgeek:

thats what David Tipple is like. His press conference tomorrow will be of interest.

Actually IMO the press should boycott it. He's trolling with that ad. The best thing to do with trolls is ignore them - if you can't ban them.

IMO you let them talk in public and they expose themselves for what they are. As soon as you ask a sensible question they start talking about their lunatic views.

Given the mood of most sensible people Gun City trolling would remove all sympathy from the gun industry. They would expose themselves as zealots.

Fred99

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#2200487 17-Mar-2019 22:30

tdgeek:

I think that would be wrong, for a number of reasons. Aside from the wild boy he has always been (and yes many always wondered how he kept intact with his flirting with Police over decades), he can't be condemned because he sells his product. His product is used by normal people.

BUT, if he plays hard ball he will alienate his industry, and thats not a bad thing, possibly indirectly make the gun review harsher for firearms owners. Should he say and do what's right, that would help a gun review progress.

He will make it or break it.

You realise how absurd that is, to argue that to use your understatement that he is a "wild boy" and "flirting with police over decades" - then suggesting that he should be given a platform to express pro-gun arguments as someone "qualified", when for ordinary people *not having a wide and politically influential support base*, then having a record like his would probably permanently exclude us from obtaining a firearms licence under existing laws.

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