networkn:

 

Basically, on the face of it, Clinton set this up to steal an election.

 

Oh please. That's conspiracy theory.

Rikkitic:

 

I stopped believing in election results when Bush beat Gore.

 

 

 

When small men begin to cast big shadows, it means that the sun is about to set.

(Lin Yutang)

Handle9:

 

networkn:

 

 

 

 

 

As I said, if he is guilty, punish him to the full extent of the law, but if he is innocent, what then? Basically, on the face of it, Clinton set this up to steal an election. That would be worse. You'd have a sitting President in a conspiracy to commit election fraud. Reality is, even if it were true, nothing would come of it, I believe it would be covered up to protect the "presidency" (Institution not person). 

 

Like you said, a nail in the coffin of Democracy. You'd have trouble believing the result of any election after that.

 

If there is credible evidence, there should be a trial (of Trump). If there isn't then something else very bad should happen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have to say I find your post ironic. Firstly you say that we shouldn't judge Trump unless he has been proven to do what he has said he did, then you accuse the Clinton campaign of election fraud by releasing Trumps tapes? I don't get it.

 

 

 

Edit: Deleted excessive quotes

 

Not sure what you are having trouble with. It's simple. There should be an investigation, if there is found to be no truth to the accusations, as far as the law is concerned, Trump is innocent. 

Who in that case, had motivations for these women to come forward? Are you seriously suggesting they all decided on their own, at the same time to come forward and make these false accusations? 

Who benefits from it?

Fred99:

 

networkn:

 

Basically, on the face of it, Clinton set this up to steal an election.

 

 

 

 

Oh please. That's conspiracy theory.

 

 

 

Right, except who benefits from these accusations? If they are found to be untrue, then what should the consequences be? Do you not think it warrants an investigation?

networkn:

 

Fred99:

 

networkn:

 

Basically, on the face of it, Clinton set this up to steal an election.

 

 

 

 

Oh please. That's conspiracy theory.

 

 

 

 

Right, except who benefits from these accusations? If they are found to be untrue, then what should the consequences be? Do you not think it warrants an investigation?

 

About what the mama saw, what she and Julio did down by the schoolyard?

networkn:

 

Are you seriously suggesting they all decided on their own, at the same time to come forward and make these false accusations? 

 

 

 

I am - because that's what happened with Bill Cosby, Rolf Harris, and 4,392 priests in the USA alone.

Fred99:

 

networkn:

 

Are you seriously suggesting they all decided on their own, at the same time to come forward and make these false accusations? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am - because that's what happened with Bill Cosby, Rolf Harris, and 4,392 priests in the USA alone.

 

No, you have misunderstood. 

I am not claiming right now for the sake of this part of the argument that they are guilty. I am saying let's say there is an investigation and it's proven they ARE lying.. You are suggesting without external motivation, 3 unrelated women have decided at the same time

to come forward to make baseless accusations?

And let's say there's an investigation and they are not lying? I think you are not taking in consideration the extreme conditions. These women are seeing this person closer to maximum power in that country, they feel now is the time to come forward, so they do.

Nothing wrong with that.

 Also, if these videos came out now to discredit Trump, what's the problem? It's his voice, his lies. Shouldn't people see him for what he is? 

freitasm:

 

And let's say there's an investigation and they are not lying? I think you are not taking in consideration the extreme conditions. These women are seeing this person closer to maximum power in that country, they feel now is the time to come forward, so they do.

 

Nothing wrong with that.

 

At least twice I have said, quite clearly I think, that if there is an investigation, as there should be, and Trump is found guilty, he should be punished to the Maximum extent of the law. 

To be honest I am surprised to see people think there is nothing suspicious in the timing. What difference would it make if they came forward 3 months ago when he got the Republican Nomination.

Also, had he not of got the nomination (or trailed by 30 points all the way to the election), would these woman have never come forward? Does what did (assuming guilt for a moment for the sake of the argument) only matter if the man is going to be President? I don't think it should matter. 

You are shifting the blame to the women and making it sound like they are at fault. I know that I'd rather see someone that has been recorded saying bad things, someone who behaved like a bigoted racist being investigated now rather than after being elected. If this costs him the election, so be it. He's been already outed as a person of low character, based on the recordings anyway.

freitasm:

 

 Also, if these videos came out now to discredit Trump, what's the problem? It's his voice, his lies. Shouldn't people see him for what he is? 

 

I have no issue with the video, the evidence is 100% irrefutable. That is the difference. Whilst it's possible, maybe even probable (though how many people could have their hands up the skirt of a woman on a plane with her saying "no I don't want that!" and not have the attention of someone else."

Just because he is a scumbag, doesn't make him guilty of any crime automatically. He is due process, like anyone else, but in this case, win or lose, he will lose. 

I want to be clear that I don't necessarily believe in his innocence, nor do I think he is a good fit for President, nor do I think he is a decent human being, but I do feel there is something "off" with these accusations.

Of course there is. Politics is a dirty game. 

The accusations emerged after the video was made public. One precipitated the other and I don't see anything suspicious about that. It was the video and nothing else that caused these women to come forward. That is how I read it.

networkn:

 

To be honest I am surprised to see people think there is nothing suspicious in the timing. What difference would it make if they came forward 3 months ago when he got the Republican Nomination.

 

I think you're right that this is opportunism. But it is opportunism by the women victims, to get justice. Up til now, they've basically had to suck it up that they've been sexually assaulted. Up til now, they (rightly) believed that if they'd made a complaint, they'd have been humiliated yet again, and very likely there would have been no real punishment for Trump... i.e. no justice. Well, the worm has turned and they now have the opportunity to give the Donald some real pain, and they're leaping at that chance.

It's ironic that Trump sold himself as an opportunity to stick it to the Establishment, and in the process he's given his victims the chance to stick it to him.