NZ 2023 Election Thread

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#3159054 13-Nov-2023 12:44

ezbee:

I'm figuring its not NZF that will be a sticking point, but a joint NZF ACT block seeing opportunity ?

They will both be very conscious that they need to be seen to be delivering for their (especially new) base. But I don't see too much that they agree on which National doesn't also agree on anyway. What would they gang up on National against?

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#3159096 13-Nov-2023 14:37

SaltyNZ: Arguably that’s begun to change. It’s a three way government this time round (assuming one or the other of ACT or NZF don’t throw a tantrum and sit on the cross benches.

Oh, you are serious? Let me laugh harder.

These guys can't organise a piss-up in a brewery, it seems.

Or...

Nice government you don't have going there. It would be a shame if another election was called.

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#3159098 13-Nov-2023 14:43

freitasm:

Oh, you are serious? Let me laugh harder.

These guys can't organise a piss-up in a brewery, it seems.

Heh... well, may be wishful thinking but if voters keep returning results that mean 3+ parties are required for a government then they will all have to learn how to compromise. [Insert Simpsons world-without-lawyers gif]

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#3159112 13-Nov-2023 15:25

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/11/election-2023-incoming-pm-christopher-luxon-says-few-issues-with-coalition-negotiations-unlikely-he-ll-attend-apec.html

According to Luxon talks are progressing well, but they're taking longer than expected so he probably won't be able to attend APEC.

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#3159115 13-Nov-2023 15:42

What else would he say? They are running rings around him and they won't listen when he instructs them to stop.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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#3159131 13-Nov-2023 16:33

I drove into the city today to drop the gar to have the windscreen replaced.

Luxon wasn't great when talking to Hoskings.

And the commentary on my drive back home was that he's not the "great negotiator" he thought he was and he underestimated politicians.

In my view, he's not going to deliver anything he promised.

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#3159250 13-Nov-2023 20:41

I reckon eh. Winston is going to run rings around him. But, he did used to run an airline, although he's probably realised by now that this doesn't really count for anything anymore.

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#3159253 13-Nov-2023 20:45

Let's see what actually happens.

No one will remember it taking a couple of weeks to negotiate an coalition agreement but they will remember if it doesn't include supporting the agenda that the parties expect like the Labour NZF agreement.

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#3159336 14-Nov-2023 07:22

Minor parties with so little of the vote starting to have the largest say in a new Government. WHilst we have been here before, why is this a democratic voting system? NZ is about to get something they didnt vote for.

Time for fresh elections.

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#3159337 14-Nov-2023 07:27

Bluntj:

Minor parties with so little of the vote starting to have the largest say in a new Government.

Citiation required.

SaltyNZ

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#3159347 14-Nov-2023 07:57

Bluntj:

why is this a democratic voting system? NZ is about to get something they didnt vote for.

But they literally did vote for it. That's why the minor parties are getting a say. Not only did the people vote for it, they voted for it more than ever before: I believe this year's result is the lowest combined result for Labour + National since MMP was introduced. If you want a two-party system, move to the US. It works just brilliantly there.

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#3159375 14-Nov-2023 09:50

Handle9:

Bluntj:

Minor parties with so little of the vote starting to have the largest say in a new Government.

Citiation required.

I think they are the minority rule "a neologism for a political structure or process in which a minority group of a population has a certain degree of primacy in that population's decision making, with legislative power or judicial power being held or controlled by a minority group rather than a majority that is representative of the population."

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#3159394 14-Nov-2023 10:32

National is literally in the pickle its in as it did not win enough of the vote by a large margin.
It was a wave to 3rd parties not as much to National.

Even with its most favored partner it throws lifeline of seat to, its not enough.
So hardly a 'Mandate of Heaven'.

So this is New Zealand middle of the road it seems.
New Zealand did not vote for any large changes no big mandate.

A steady as she goes with just incremental changes John Key like first term would probably be wisest.

Even within National there was a variation looking back to differences of Bill English faction and Judith Collins faction etc.
However in times driven by USA news cycles and Evangelism, there is a promise of winner takes all.
Thats what National, ACT promised so its a pickle.

There is plenty to do in policy in the center right, but thats not what gets the Evangelists fired up.
Worse the vast sums channeled into National/ACT don't come from those looking for a middle ground.

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#3159400 14-Nov-2023 11:11

Bluntj: Minor parties with so little of the vote starting to have the largest say in a new Government. WHilst we have been here before, why is this a democratic voting system? NZ is about to get something they didnt vote for.

Incorrect. NZ did vote for the National Party. Prior to the election the leader of the National Party did not rule out a coalition with NZ First Winston Peters. NZ voted for that.

The other choice for anti-Peters voters was ACT party. As I recollect the leader of the ACT Party Seymour 100% ruled out being part of any coalition that included Winston Peters NZF. Theoretically people who didn't want Peters NZF could have voted for ACT to keep Peters out.

But, actually in practice it would not have helped anti-Peters voters in this case because the ACT leader seems to have entirely changed his mind after the election.

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#3159401 14-Nov-2023 11:14

gzt:

But, actually in practice it would not have helped in this case because the ACT leader seems to have entirely changed his mind after the election.

I, for one, was shocked, shocked to hear that.

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