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609 posts

Ultimate Geek
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Topic # 223069 11-Sep-2017 12:39
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http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11920804

 

"Winston Peters has set out a firm new condition of going into government with Labour - it must tell him what its tax plans are.

 

New Zealand First could not support any Labour government without knowing its true intentions, he told the Herald.

 

Peters said he believed Labour already knew what it wanted from a proposed tax working group but was instead saying it had not decided."

 

 

 

Is this a reasonable request?

 

Shouldn't we all know what Labour's tax plans are before the election?


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1862308 11-Sep-2017 12:44
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But Jacindas smile is so pretty, why do we need details?

 

 

 

OK, sarcasm off, yes we should know details, but this is just Winston getting himself in the limelight making sure his voice is heard. He is essentially trying to hurt National even more by dilluting their "lack of details from Labour" message and put NZ First as a viable option to keep Labour honest.

 

In reality, Winston will serve Winston


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  Reply # 1862309 11-Sep-2017 12:49
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If Winston Peters gets a call from Jacinda Ardern at 10pm on 23/9/2017 offering him a position in the Government he will be in. 





Mike
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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


 
 
 
 


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1862310 11-Sep-2017 12:51
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He is not the only one wanting to know these plans.

 

Winston always rocking the boat. But he does seem to be asking some intelligent questions.

 

 


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  Reply # 1862311 11-Sep-2017 12:53
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Winston is just jumping on the bandwaggon. Labour's tax policies are a point of contention and people go on about them. In a couple of weeks we will know what the majority of voters think about this.

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 




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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1862314 11-Sep-2017 12:57
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Wiggum:

 

He is not the only one wanting to know these plans.

 

Winston always rocking the boat. But he does seem to be asking some intelligent questions.

 

 

 

 

I just wonder whether Winston may be pushing Labour too far on this one.

 

Could it have the potential to make some NZ First supporters switch over to the Greens who don't seem to mind a vague Labour tax policy?


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  Reply # 1862315 11-Sep-2017 13:01
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I like Labours tax working group, consulting before deciding is a sensible idea. It is similar to what the David Lange government did when they inherited a bankrupt nation.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


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  Reply # 1862325 11-Sep-2017 13:25
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Labour have had 9 years to work out a tax plan...like Winston I have also decided I want more info from Labour before I vote for them. Even their words around capital gains tax is vague and yet its a huge issue for a lot of people.


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  Reply # 1862329 11-Sep-2017 13:30
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Tax should be based on the now and the future not the past. You have correctly written " huge issue for a lot of people" the working party will give the opportunity for many folk to make submissions instead of just being dished up a tax regime based on a voting majority in the house. Labour does have tax plans detailed already one just has to read their website but they are also looking forward and looking to what NZ wants. That's actually a good thing.

 

disclaimer; I have voted National in the last three elections.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1862334 11-Sep-2017 13:35
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Pumpedd:

 

Labour have had 9 years to work out a tax plan...like Winston I have also decided I want more info from Labour before I vote for them. Even their words around capital gains tax is vague and yet its a huge issue for a lot of people.

 

 

What I am finding frustrating is that every time Jacinda opens her mouth on the subject, I just get even more confused. Glad to find out its not just me.


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  Reply # 1862347 11-Sep-2017 14:04
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Labour keeps getting attacked for lack of clarity about its tax plans. Now National's HomeStart is being criticised as misleading. All I see here is politicians doing politician things in the run-up to an election. Where is the difference?

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1862380 11-Sep-2017 15:04
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Pumpedd:

 

Labour have had 9 years to work out a tax plan...like Winston I have also decided I want more info from Labour before I vote for them. Even their words around capital gains tax is vague and yet its a huge issue for a lot of people.

 

 

Yeah, I bet you're really on the fence about voting for Labour.

 

For all those who are struggling with this issue (and there seem to be many), this is how I have interpreted Labour's position:

 

  • any tax reform is not aimed at raising revenue generally - it is aimed at rebalancing the tax system away from taxing income and towards taxing capital
  • within the broader group of "capital", the top priority is real estate, due to the housing crisis
  • the family home is exempt from any new taxes as owning a home to live in is something Kiwis aspire to and fulfils a valuable societal purpose
  • the first crack at rebalancing the system is extending the bright line test from two years to five
  • if that's not enough to make an appreciable dent in the housing crisis, they reserve the right to take expert advice on and implement other options
  • policies announced by Labour in previous years give the best guidance as to what those other options are likely to be - likely a more comprehensive CGT than the "bright line"
  • other options (like a land tax or financial transaction tax) are still on the table, so the working group has some options to discuss, but Labour has never given any kind of indication that they would favour these taxes

To me this approach is entirely sensible and I am perfectly happy to vote for it.

 

My personal prediction is that the combination of the bright line test 2.0, reduced immigration, stricter controls for landlords and banned foreign ownership, together with the natural end of the most recent boom cycle, will mean there are no house price increases for years to come. If that's the case I cannot imagine how or why Labour would introduce any new taxes at all. I would certainly prefer them to leave the option of doing so open, rather than irrevocably committing to it now. On the other hand - the best time to introduce a CGT is probably during the slow part of the cycle, before the next boom starts. Imagine how much revenue would have been raised if National had introduced a CGT in 2012. Probably could have paid off a few of the $90b they borrowed. Alas...


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Master Geek
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  Reply # 1862385 11-Sep-2017 15:16
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allio:

 

Yeah, I bet you're really on the fence about voting for Labour.

 

For all those who are struggling with this issue (and there seem to be many), this is how I have interpreted Labour's position:

 

  • any tax reform is not aimed at raising revenue generally - it is aimed at rebalancing the tax system away from taxing income and towards taxing capital
  • within the broader group of "capital", the top priority is real estate, due to the housing crisis
  • the family home is exempt from any new taxes as owning a home to live in is something Kiwis aspire to and fulfils a valuable societal purpose
  • the first crack at rebalancing the system is extending the bright line test from two years to five
  • if that's not enough to make an appreciable dent in the housing crisis, they reserve the right to take expert advice on and implement other options
  • policies announced by Labour in previous years give the best guidance as to what those other options are likely to be - likely a more comprehensive CGT than the "bright line"
  • other options (like a land tax or financial transaction tax) are still on the table, so the working group has some options to discuss, but Labour has never given any kind of indication that they would favour these taxes

To me this approach is entirely sensible and I am perfectly happy to vote for it.

 

My personal prediction is that the combination of the bright line test 2.0, reduced immigration, stricter controls for landlords and banned foreign ownership, together with the natural end of the most recent boom cycle, will mean there are no house price increases for years to come. If that's the case I cannot imagine how or why Labour would introduce any new taxes at all. I would certainly prefer them to leave the option of doing so open, rather than irrevocably committing to it now. On the other hand - the best time to introduce a CGT is probably during the slow part of the cycle, before the next boom starts. Imagine how much revenue would have been raised if National had introduced a CGT in 2012. Probably could have paid off a few of the $90b they borrowed. Alas...

 

 

Imagine if Labour had bought it in when house prices took off in the early 2000s, or when they updated the Income Tax Act in the 2003 or 2007 re-writes. 


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1862398 11-Sep-2017 15:37
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Labour should have no trouble revealing how they intend to tax if they form a government. Having a committee after being elected is a horrifying idea. They have time to plan, and must do so.

 

Wether they keep taxes as they are, raise them or lower them. They absolutely must reveal their plan. It is NOT an unreasonable request at all.

 

Any political party could go and make tonnes of promises,

 

e.g. We will give everyone money towards a home, pay for their education, build Len Brown's Trainset and massive tunneling projects in the south island. We will increase social spending etc etc. 

But they must know where the money is going to come from. I am extremely concerned about about the general public being completely un-informed. And choosing to vote for a pretty face because she has made some nice promises.

 

 

 

 






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  Reply # 1862400 11-Sep-2017 15:44
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Wiggum:

 

Pumpedd:

 

Labour have had 9 years to work out a tax plan...like Winston I have also decided I want more info from Labour before I vote for them. Even their words around capital gains tax is vague and yet its a huge issue for a lot of people.

 

 

What I am finding frustrating is that every time Jacinda opens her mouth on the subject, I just get even more confused. Glad to find out its not just me.

 

 

She is really all wind, but I probably will vote for her cause National have left huge gaps in how lower income people are going to fare. Labour havnt said much on this either especially definitive spending on health.


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Master Geek
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  Reply # 1862403 11-Sep-2017 15:49
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Lets stop bashing Jacinda Ardern for her looks and personality, She has proven in all the debates that she holds her own with Bill English. Look Read and listen to the ommentators after the debates They all agree that she has held her own or in many cases had the better of BE. While many are concerned about a Tax Policy and what it may hold. National also have produced policies that they need to work out and clarify Roading for example they want new roads developed in certain areas but like all new developments there will need to be much discussion and negotiations Education and the second language development they haven't a clue how this is going to work.

Like any new policy discussion and negotiations must take place and adjustments made. Take the Waterview tunnel which was originally proposed by Labour disregarded by National in favour of a above ground then changing their minds after much discussion and reverting to the original plan with the addition of extra lanes. Any sensible Government would follow these procedures so lets accept what Labours wants to do with their tax proposal if elected


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