USA abortion rights

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kingdragonfly

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#295925 5-May-2022 21:17

Some background information about abortion rights in the USA as of May 2022. The opinion piece was broken by Politico

Wikipedia: Roe v. Wade, in 1973, was a landmark decision of the U.S. Supreme Court in which the Court ruled that the Constitution of the United States protects a pregnant woman's liberty to choose to have an abortion without excessive government restriction.

The decision struck down many U.S. federal and state abortion laws.

Roe fueled an ongoing abortion debate in the United States about whether or to what extent abortion should be legal, who should decide the legality of abortion, and what the role of moral and religious views in the political sphere should be. It also shaped debate concerning which methods the Supreme Court should use in constitutional adjudication.

Politico: Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows

The Supreme Court has voted to strike down the landmark Roe v. Wade decision, according to an initial draft majority opinion written by Justice Samuel Alito circulated inside the court and obtained by POLITICO.

The draft opinion is a full-throated, unflinching repudiation of the 1973 decision which guaranteed federal constitutional protections of abortion rights and a subsequent 1992 decision — Planned Parenthood v. Casey — that largely maintained the right. “Roe was egregiously wrong from the start,” Alito writes.

“We hold that Roe and Casey must be overruled,” he writes in the document, labeled as the “Opinion of the Court.” “It is time to heed the Constitution and return the issue of abortion to the people’s elected representatives.”
...
Gallop Poll: Most Important Problem

When Gallup asked respondents what they thought was the most important problem facing the United States today, less than half of 1 percent said abortion in December 2021, January 2022, or February. In March, that number slipped to zero.

The Hill: Republican representative Matt Gaetz faces backlash for ‘over-educated’ women remark

Representative Matt Gaetz (Republican-Florida) is facing backlash... on his Twitter post:

“How many of the women rallying against overturning Roe are over-educated, under-loved millennials who sadly return from protests to a lonely microwave dinner with their cats, and no bumble matches?”...

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#2910748 6-May-2022 08:10

Very polarizing topic.

Fortunately none of the women I am closely associated with (friends, family etc) have had to make the decision of whether or not to abort a pregnancy, but having such a personal issue played out in the manner in which it is now can only add to the stress.

I am both for and against it personally. For, in that there should be a right to choose and there are circumstances where it is even "appropriate" (result of rape for example), but far less supportive where it is used as a means of birth control. As a man I realise my opinion is completely unqualified but as a father, I would hope that my daughter would take appropriate measures to prevent pregnancy in the first place.

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gzt

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#2910754 6-May-2022 08:39

Louisiana begins legislation to classify abortion as homicide:

https://www.theadvertiser.com/story/news/2022/05/04/louisiana-lawmakers-advance-bill-make-abortion-crime-murder/9648833002/

The law will apply from the moment of fertilization.

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#2910757 6-May-2022 08:42

sen8or: Fortunately none of the women I am closely associated with (friends, family etc) have had to make the decision of whether or not to abort a pregnancy, but having such a personal issue played out in the manner in which it is now can only add to the stress.

You would not necessarily know. Because it is not your decision.

PsychoSmiley

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#2910759 6-May-2022 08:49

As a bloke I have no ownership in this and should not. It's their body, their choice.

kingdragonfly

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#2910794 6-May-2022 10:55

I'm trying not to be confrontational, but pragmatic.

If you're Pro-Life / anti-abortion that's always fine, if you're woman of child-bearing age.

If you're not, then it's OK if you're willing to provide till the child

84 hours a week to the care (12 hours x 7) and/or
$8,000/year (half of the average $16,000 cost per year)

So when the child is 18 that works out to be

78,624 hours (half the hours) and/or
$144,000 (half the cost)

If you're not willing to make those investments, then you should not vote against abortion / offer pro-life advice.

SJB

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#2910965 6-May-2022 12:50

Isn't there a saying about US Republicans. They are pro-life from conception to birth - after that you're on your own.

kingdragonfly

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#2911250 7-May-2022 09:28

Washington Post: This is what the beginning of the end of the Roe era feels like

...To Judith Arcana, the news of Roe’s likely reversal “felt like last time but more frightening,” she said.

The “last time” she was referring to was the last time abortion was illegal. Half a century ago, Judith worked with a group in Chicago who called themselves the Service, which people would later call “The Jane Collective.” They facilitated abortions when the practice was illegal. Judith was arrested once. She had a carful of patients she was transporting from the meeting place to the makeshift clinic. The police were on her tail; she lost them a few times, but eventually they caught up.

She thinks for a moment. “That was May 3, 1972,” she says. “That was 50 years ago, today.”
...

kingdragonfly

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#2911254 7-May-2022 09:50

Guttmacher: 26 States Are Certain or Likely to Ban Abortion Without Roe: Here’s Which Ones and Why

Technofreak

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#2911403 7-May-2022 20:45

kingdragonfly: I'm trying not to be confrontational, but pragmatic.

If you're Pro-Life / anti-abortion that's always fine, if you're woman of child-bearing age.

If you're not, then it's OK if you're willing to provide till the child

84 hours a week to the care (12 hours x 7) and/or

$8,000/year (half of the average $16,000 cost per year)
So when the child is 18 that works out to be

78,624 hours (half the hours) and/or

$144,000 (half the cost)
If you're not willing to make those investments, then you should not vote against abortion / offer pro-life advice.

So by your logic one life is worth more than another life. Some one gets to decide if another person lives or dies but the person most affected never gets to have a say. Not sure I can accept that logic. Just imagine if your mother had decided to abort you?

I'm sorry, all this rhetoric about it being a woman's choice is just BS. What about the other human being in this equation? What about their choice? Yes, I'm a male, but I can point you to many women who say the same thing.

I accept there will be exceptional circumstances where there is a choice to save one life over the other and abortion may an option that is considered, however for 99% of situations it is just a convenient way to deal with a inconvenient situation. I think it's a very sad commentary on society where taking a life is considered to be an acceptable part of every day life.

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Rikkitic

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#2911449 7-May-2022 22:35

Technofreak:

I'm sorry, all this rhetoric about it being a woman's choice is just BS.

A sperm is not a human being. It is a potential. So is a fertilised egg. As a foetus develops, so does the potential. The point at which that potential becomes a person is a matter of semantics and law. Women are not baby machines. They have every right to decide what happens to their own bodies. They do not have the same right over a child once born, which then becomes another human being.

Birth is not just birth. It is the result of nine months of gestation and everything that goes with that. A child then requires nurturing for at least another 18 years, maybe a lifetime. The only person qualified to make a decision about this kind of commitment is the one who has to carry the burden.

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kingdragonfly

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#2911497 8-May-2022 09:13

Technofreak: the person most affected never gets to have a say

It's hard to have a say when it neither has a nose, vocal cords, lips, tongue, or throat. (~ 5 months)

In New Zealand, for every adoption there are about 1,400 abortions.

So there seems to be an overwhelming number of people who don't care about a clump of cells after it transitions to a infant.

Technofreak

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#2911505 8-May-2022 09:59

Rikkitic:

Technofreak:

I'm sorry, all this rhetoric about it being a woman's choice is just BS.

A sperm is not a human being. It is a potential. So is a fertilised egg. As a foetus develops, so does the potential. The point at which that potential becomes a person is a matter of semantics and law. Women are not baby machines. They have every right to decide what happens to their own bodies. They do not have the same right over a child once born, which then becomes another human being.

Birth is not just birth. It is the result of nine months of gestation and everything that goes with that. A child then requires nurturing for at least another 18 years, maybe a lifetime. The only person qualified to make a decision about this kind of commitment is the one who has to carry the burden.

Yes, most certainly they do but once conception occurs there's another life in involved.

The rights of one are halted when the rights of another are affected. In this case the arguments about a woman's rights are just as flawed as all those people claiming their "rights" around the Covid restrictions/vaccine mandates. In both cases the claims about rights are based on self centred thinking.

Your concept about when the baby becomes another human being is rather novel. One day it isn't a human being and the next day it is? I find that concept incredible. When a baby is born it transitions from a human being that is nurtured inside the womb to one that is now nurtured outside the womb. In both cases, the baby is reliant on the mother for survival.

I take it you think it's quite OK to take the decision to terminate the life of one person just because that person may be a "burden" on the person making the decision. Let's apply that thinking to later in life where an adult becomes a "burden" say through an accident or old age. Using your argument of the only person qualified to make a decision about this kind of commitment is the one carrying the burden, is it OK for the person carrying the burden to decide to terminate the life of the one creating the burden?

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kingdragonfly

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#2911513 8-May-2022 11:04

@Technofreak

Do you have any science behind any of the claims, or is it just based on faith and beliefs?

Your definition is so broad that a cancer growing inside a women meets your criteria.

Does the cancer have a say on whether it should be removed, as it has the same cognitive abilities as a zygote?

Faith is wonderful, but it doesn't feed or shelter an unwanted child.

gzt

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#2911518 8-May-2022 11:51

Technofreak: Yes, most certainly they do but once conception occurs there's another life in involved.

I take it that you are opposed to termination of pregnancy at any time for any reason except when the pregnancy may result in the death of the mother?

SJB

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#2911519 8-May-2022 12:10

A Louisiana Republican is promoting a state law that would mean that a woman who gets an abortion could be charged with murder.

The Taliban are alive and well and living in Louisiana.

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