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openmedia

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#90492 22-Sep-2011 16:51
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Hmm.. This might be a hornets nest, but here goes.

Mastercard are getting the banks to replace most customer cards with NFC capable cards featuring their Paypass system for contactless payments. Visa have their own system called Paywave. These technologies have already been commented on by a number of geekzone bloggers.

http://www.geekzone.co.nz/davidcole/davidcole/7804
http://www.geekzone.co.nz/content.asp?contentid=9276

Now I'm personally not happy about this on a couple of levels
  1. I can't choose the per-transation payment limit - that has been set by the bank
  2. I can't choose to have a pin required for this payments
  3. I can't have it disabled on my card
  4. I can't set a daily or weekly limit on these transations
  5. It isn't an ewallet type system where I can pre-load an amount and reduce my exposure/risk
I've spoken with my bank about it and been informed that they basically have no choice themselves as it has all been mandated by Mastercard.

So what choice do I have right now other than finding a bank that can provide me with a card in the short term until such time as they also are required to implement this system as well.

Oh and I have been assured by the bank that I'm not exposed to fraud as they will pick up on any reported misuse, but I'd rather have some options around minimising my own exposure.

Thoughts?




Generally known online as OpenMedia, now working for Red Hat APAC a Technology Evangelist and Product Manager. Still playing with MythTV and digital media on the side.


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SteveON
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  #524687 22-Sep-2011 17:04

My thought is that it is not going to be like a RFID where you can access the card from 5M away, more like a snapper card. Unless they steal your wallet or stick the card readier on your leg you have nothing to worry about.

 
 
 
 


jjnz1
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  #524691 22-Sep-2011 17:16
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SteveON: I agree, I have a visa pay wave and feel absolutely safe.

1. the bank knows where the transaction comes from
2. they will reimburse you if something goes a miss
3. the card only works about a maximum of 4cm away from readers. (I have tried this)
4. if someone hacks the paywave system using android and NFC etc, they will disable it.



So your worrying about nothing, just relax.
 

The NFC system uses the same processes that have been used for visa's/mastercards since their inception-signing!

MOST retailers do not even look at your signature when paying for items. It is very easy to use someone elses card and sign their name. You may disagree, but its fact.

 

dontpanic42
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  #524697 22-Sep-2011 17:34
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Since they have now implemented this system, I would like to see immediate/real-time transaction info on all credit card transactions. i.e. through internet banking.

Any bank I have come across so far, it seems to take between 1-3days for transactions to appear on my internet banking credit card transactions list.

It can't be that hard to have that sort of info real-time, even if the transactions haven't been statemented yet.

davidcole
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  #524702 22-Sep-2011 17:38
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There was a response on my blog from ASB, bascally saying you can opt out by choosing a Visa instead of mastercard.




Previously known as psycik

OpenHAB: Gigabyte AMD A8 BrixOpenHAB with Aeotech ZWave Controller, Raspberry PI, Wemos D1 Mini, Zwave, Xiaomi Humidity and Temperature sensors and Bluetooth LE Sensors
Media:Chromecast v2, ATV4, Roku3, HDHomeRun Dual
Windows 10
Host (Plex Server/Crashplan): 2x2TB, 2x3TB, 1x4TB using DriveBender, Samsung 850 evo 512 GB SSD, Hyper-V Server with 1xW10, 1xW2k8, 2xUbuntu 16.04 LTS, Crashplan, NextPVR channel for Plex,NextPVR Metadata Agent and Scanner for Plex


jjnz1
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  #524711 22-Sep-2011 17:57
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dontpanic42: Since they have now implemented this system, I would like to see immediate/real-time transaction info on all credit card transactions. i.e. through internet banking.

Any bank I have come across so far, it seems to take between 1-3days for transactions to appear on my internet banking credit card transactions list.

It can't be that hard to have that sort of info real-time, even if the transactions haven't been statemented yet.


+1

Pretty sure my ASB Visa amends the avaliable balance asap, and then inserts transaction info that night. 

---Yep, just checked, it does.

[EDIT] Give it a few months, hopefully when this Reserve Bank mandate comes in pushing for all banks to sync at least 3 times a day instead of one, we'll get that kind of service!

jjnz1
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  #524712 22-Sep-2011 17:58
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davidcole: There was a response on my blog from ASB, bascally saying you can opt out by choosing a Visa instead of mastercard.


I didn't get a say, I cancelled my last visa a few weeks ago, and it was replaced with an NFC card. First time I had heard of the service. 

 
 
 
 


davidcole
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  #524713 22-Sep-2011 18:00
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I'd imagine visa won't be too far away doing the same thing as MasterCard.




Previously known as psycik

OpenHAB: Gigabyte AMD A8 BrixOpenHAB with Aeotech ZWave Controller, Raspberry PI, Wemos D1 Mini, Zwave, Xiaomi Humidity and Temperature sensors and Bluetooth LE Sensors
Media:Chromecast v2, ATV4, Roku3, HDHomeRun Dual
Windows 10
Host (Plex Server/Crashplan): 2x2TB, 2x3TB, 1x4TB using DriveBender, Samsung 850 evo 512 GB SSD, Hyper-V Server with 1xW10, 1xW2k8, 2xUbuntu 16.04 LTS, Crashplan, NextPVR channel for Plex,NextPVR Metadata Agent and Scanner for Plex


dontpanic42
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  #524716 22-Sep-2011 18:04
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jjnz1:
Pretty sure my ASB Visa amends the avaliable balance asap, and then inserts transaction info that night.


Indeed, my credit card balance is also immediately adjusted to reflect a transaction in real-time, but the actual transaction info doesn't appear until later. Usually it's at midnight, but it can take up to 3 days sometimes.

It can't be that hard can it?... you know, with all the fancy technology they are putting into credit cards these days.
:P

Beccara
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  #524722 22-Sep-2011 18:16
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I thought CC transactions were 2 stage process where the merchant "reserves" the funds and then they process it at end of the day or something to get the funds, I know I've had transactions take weeks to show up because merchants only processed them every other week. Can't remember the right terms




Most problems are the result of previous solutions...

All comment's I make are my own personal opinion and do not in any way, shape or form reflect the views of current or former employers unless specifically stated 

sbiddle
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  #524728 22-Sep-2011 18:52
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davidcole: I'd imagine visa won't be too far away doing the same thing as MasterCard.


Visa's NFC launched in NZ 3 weeks ago.


I see no point in disabling your NFC card because your credit card transaction is no more secure. With no pin required for less than ~$80 you are exposed to the same risk of fraud regardless of the technology type.


dontpanic42
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  #524734 22-Sep-2011 19:13
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If I had one of these contact-less pay system cards, what are the chances of someone passing me on the street and "skimming" $80 from my card? Are there portable EFTPOS machines available that support PayWave/Paypass systems.

BTW, that's a serious question for someone that may be in the know with these things. It's not a 'how would one go about doing this' question, just wanted to know how likely it would be for my own piece of mind.

I suppose it's a moot question as well, since in those circumstances it would be refunded by the bank anyway.

A simple solution for the skimming scenario might be to keep the card in an RF isolation sleeve until needed. Possibly a bit paranoid, but you never know these days.

EDIT: Spelling mistake. :P

jjnz1
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  #524744 22-Sep-2011 19:27
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dontpanic42: If I had one of these contact-less pay system cards, what are the chances of someone passing me on the street and "skimming" $80 from my card? Are there portable EFTPOS machines available that support PayWave/Paypass systems.

BTW, that's a serious question for someone that may be in the know with these things. It's not a 'how would one go about doing this' question, just wanted to know how likely it would be for my own piece of mind.

I suppose it's a moot question as well, since in those circumstances it would be refunded by the bank anyway.

A simple solution for the skimming scenario might be to keep the card in an RF isolation sleeve until needed. Possibly a bit paranoid, but you never know these days.

EDIT: Spelling mistake. :P


chances are the bank will correct this problem before you even know 

davidcole
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  #524750 22-Sep-2011 19:40
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I've never like how credit cards were able to auth off a signature. Figured they should have got rid of that years ago for pin + Internet pin.




Previously known as psycik

OpenHAB: Gigabyte AMD A8 BrixOpenHAB with Aeotech ZWave Controller, Raspberry PI, Wemos D1 Mini, Zwave, Xiaomi Humidity and Temperature sensors and Bluetooth LE Sensors
Media:Chromecast v2, ATV4, Roku3, HDHomeRun Dual
Windows 10
Host (Plex Server/Crashplan): 2x2TB, 2x3TB, 1x4TB using DriveBender, Samsung 850 evo 512 GB SSD, Hyper-V Server with 1xW10, 1xW2k8, 2xUbuntu 16.04 LTS, Crashplan, NextPVR channel for Plex,NextPVR Metadata Agent and Scanner for Plex


dontpanic42
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  #524756 22-Sep-2011 20:01
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jjnz1:
chances are the bank will correct this problem before you even know 


How would the bank know of fraudulent transactions of such a small amount before I would?
How would that even be possible?

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