VDSL noob - few concerns regarding install and performance

Forums › Spark New Zealand (including Skinny and BigPipe) › VDSL noob - few concerns regarding install and performance

ritzlal

451 posts

Ultimate Geek

#150365 20-Jul-2014 10:33

Hi guys,

Firstly apologies for the lack of VDSL knowledge here. I've read a bit but still unclear regarding what a normal installation entails and how it should look for the customer. I've just had VDSL installed yesterday and am a bit concerned with a few things. The technician who came out to do the install was very friendly and I have no issues with his personality. However, just wondering whether the job done was satisfactory. My concerns are: (please note some of these may be totally fine so I'm happy to accept what is standard procedure)

- We have 3 jackpoints but he said that the install could only be done in one install and once done, I couldn't move my modem to another location for VDSL
- I have a 2870B modem capable of VDSL but he said I had to disconnect that and use the pre-programme modem supplied by Telecom
- He didn't get under the house to check any of the wiring as he said it's too difficult with the insulation and that he couldn't track any cables. Therefore he just did something on the Telecom box where the filter is installed outside the house and installed a new VDSL port inside the house.
- I questioned wheter the wiring needed to be checked or how this all worked but he said no this should be fine. I should see my speeds double and then over the next couple of week it should get faster.
- Checked ADSL speeds I was getting (16 down and 1 up). Checked VDSL speeds after install (10 down and 10 up). He said this was unusual but I should see some improvements in the near future. Said this was all he could do and walked away.

Do I have a valid reason to be concerned about anything above? Wondering how long I wait before I question the VDSL installation/performance. I'm 400m away from the green cabinet by the way.

Thanks for any info you guys can provide!

1 | 2

5968 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Geekzone

Lifetime subscriber

#1092352 20-Jul-2014 10:33

Hello... Our robot found some keywords in your post, so here is an automated reply with some important things to note regarding broadband speeds.

If you are posting regarding DSL speeds please check that

- you have reset your modem and router

- your PC (or other PCs in your LAN) is not downloading large files when you are testing

- you are not being throttled by your ISP due to going over the monthly cap

- your tests are always done on an ethernet connection to the router - do not use wireless for testing

- you read this topic and follow the instructions there.

Make sure you provide information for other users to help you. If you have not already done it, please EDIT your post and add this now:

- Your ISP and plan

- Type of connection (ADSL, ADSL2, VDSL)

- Your modem DSL stats (do not worry about posting Speedtest, we need sync rate, attenuation and noise margin)

- Your general location (or street)

- If you are rural or urban

- If you know your connection is to an exchange, cabinet or conklin

- If your connection is to a ULL or wholesale service

- If you have done an isolation test as per the link above

Most of the problems with speed are likely to be related to internal wiring issues. Read this discussion to find out more about this. Your ISP is not intentionally slowing you down today (unless you are on a managed plan). Also if this is the school holidays it's likely you will notice slower than usual speed due to more users online.

A master splitter is required for VDSL2 and in most cases will improve speeds on DSL connections. Regular disconnections can be a monitored alarm or a set top box trying to connect. If there's an alarm connected to your line even if you don't have an alarm contract it may still try to connect so it's worth checking.

I recommend you read these two blog posts:

- Is your premises phone wiring impacting your broadband performance? (very technical)

- Are you receiving a substandard ULL ADSL2+ connection from your ISP?

I am the Geekzone Robot and I am here to help. I am from the Internet. I do not interact. Do not expect other replies from me.

These links are referral codes: Sharesies | Mighty Ape | Norton 360 | Lenovo laptops | Geekzone Price Comparison

MightyApe

You will find anything you want at MightyApe (affiliate link).

RunningMan

7948 posts

Uber Geek

#1092386 20-Jul-2014 11:10

From what you have described, that sounds perfectly normal. The preferred way is a master filter in the ETP (little box outside!), and a new cable run from there to a single jack point for the modem where you want it, leaving the remainder of the wiring as is.

The only slight concern is the current 10Mb/s downstream sync rate - could you post the VDSL line stats from the modem?

quickymart

11164 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

#1092396 20-Jul-2014 11:10

It will take a week or so for your speeds to improve (although mine took about 24 hours).

ritzlal

451 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1092399 20-Jul-2014 11:16

Thanks guys. Appreciate it. Although he didn't run any wiring under the house to the new VDSL port. He just used the existing jack wiring that was there next to my modem. He didn't go under the house at all. Not sure if that's normal?

Also, would an initial drop in download speeds be normal? He just said "...oh it's Saturday, everyone must be on the Internet." Lol. Doesn't quite explain how I was getting 15-16MB download 30 minutes prior? I'm still only getting 10-11MB down and it's been about 24 hours.

Cbfd

307 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1092403 20-Jul-2014 11:21

What does your modem sync at?

RunningMan

7948 posts

Uber Geek

#1092406 20-Jul-2014 11:28

It's OK to reuse existing wiring if there's additional pairs in there, and they are in OK condition. Don't restart your modem, but take note of those DSL line stats several times over the next couple of days and see what they do. The downstream rate strikes me as being on the low side a little - does your modem offer a bitloading graph at all?

ritzlal

451 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1092407 20-Jul-2014 11:30

RunningMan: It's OK to reuse existing wiring if there's additional pairs in there, and they are in OK condition. Don't restart your modem, but take note of those DSL line stats several times over the next couple of days and see what they do. The downstream rate strikes me as being on the low side a little - does your modem offer a bitloading graph at all?

Thanks for that info. Didn't want to question Telecom/Chorus without learning about this first so thanks a lot to you all. Not sure about the modem. I don't think it does. But I can manually take screenshots I guess. Thanks again :) Will see how it goes over the next few days.

sbiddle

30853 posts

Uber Geek

Retired Mod

Trusted

Biddle Corp

Lifetime subscriber

#1092416 20-Jul-2014 11:41

Speed might change a little but it won't be anything significant - I'd guess maybe 10% or so with stats that poor.

ritzlal

451 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1092418 20-Jul-2014 11:43

sbiddle: Speed might change a little but it won't be anything significant - I'd guess maybe 10% or so with stats that poor.

Hmm, that's concerning because it leaves me with slower download speeds than my ADSL. Wonder if Telecom would do something about this.

sbiddle

30853 posts

Uber Geek

Retired Mod

Trusted

Biddle Corp

Lifetime subscriber

#1092422 20-Jul-2014 11:51

ritzlal:
sbiddle: Speed might change a little but it won't be anything significant - I'd guess maybe 10% or so with stats that poor.

Hmm, that's concerning because it leaves me with slower download speeds than my ADSL. Wonder if Telecom would do something about this.

Which is exactly what will happen on a poor line.

Whether your speed can be made faster depends entirely on what the cause is, and with the limited information we have here nobody is in a position to answer that. The fact your ADSL2+ speed was OK tends to indicate poor high frequency performance on your copper MPF or a wiring fault with your master filter install. If it's a) then talking realistically there probably isn't a lot that will be done other than moving you back to ADSL2+. You may get a tech willing to swap MPFs if this is possible, but without a lot more knowledge of your situation incl bitloading graphs we can do nothing but speculate.

ripdog

548 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user

#1092424 20-Jul-2014 11:57

ritzlal: Hi guys,

Firstly apologies for the lack of VDSL knowledge here. I've read a bit but still unclear regarding what a normal installation entails and how it should look for the customer. I've just had VDSL installed yesterday and am a bit concerned with a few things. The technician who came out to do the install was very friendly and I have no issues with his personality. However, just wondering whether the job done was satisfactory. My concerns are: (please note some of these may be totally fine so I'm happy to accept what is standard procedure)

- We have 3 jackpoints but he said that the install could only be done in one install and once done, I couldn't move my modem to another location for VDSL
- I have a 2870B modem capable of VDSL but he said I had to disconnect that and use the pre-programme modem supplied by Telecom
- He didn't get under the house to check any of the wiring as he said it's too difficult with the insulation and that he couldn't track any cables. Therefore he just did something on the Telecom box where the filter is installed outside the house and installed a new VDSL port inside the house.
- I questioned wheter the wiring needed to be checked or how this all worked but he said no this should be fine. I should see my speeds double and then over the next couple of week it should get faster.
- Checked ADSL speeds I was getting (16 down and 1 up). Checked VDSL speeds after install (10 down and 10 up). He said this was unusual but I should see some improvements in the near future. Said this was all he could do and walked away.

Do I have a valid reason to be concerned about anything above? Wondering how long I wait before I question the VDSL installation/performance. I'm 400m away from the green cabinet by the way.

Thanks for any info you guys can provide!

1. This means he installed a Master Splitter, which splits Voice and DSL directly at the point where the phone line enters your house, rather than standard installs with a small splitter coming out of a standard voice jack. This ensures that your house's internal (and likely old/crappy) wiring won't affect your VDSL performance. You will, indeed, need to keep to modem plugged into that one socket. You should be able to use a phone extender if that's a bad position, though.

2. Any VDSL modem will work, however Telecom (like all ISPs these days) provide a preconfigured modem with all the correct settings to Just Werk. This setup makes things easier for inexperienced customers and Telecom's helpdesk, but if you can find the settings you need, feel free to use your own.

3. As mentioned in 1, your houses internal wiring doesn't matter. The VDSL signal does not pass over any of it, and this is a good thing.

4. He is correct. Your speeds will likely increase as the DSLAM/Modem will negotiate a safe but slow setting to start with, and then slowly ramp up the speed until the line can't handle anymore.

5. Yep, nothing more he can do. You won't know your actual speed until the line speed negotiation is complete (what's the proper name for this?). Wait a week and check again. Leave the telecom modem on the whole week at least.

EDIT: Whoops, I didn't see the other posts when I went to write this. Perhaps some little bit may still be helpful lol. I'm no expert so advice of the others overrides mine :)

ritzlal

451 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1092427 20-Jul-2014 12:05

ripdog:
ritzlal: Hi guys,

Firstly apologies for the lack of VDSL knowledge here. I've read a bit but still unclear regarding what a normal installation entails and how it should look for the customer. I've just had VDSL installed yesterday and am a bit concerned with a few things. The technician who came out to do the install was very friendly and I have no issues with his personality. However, just wondering whether the job done was satisfactory. My concerns are: (please note some of these may be totally fine so I'm happy to accept what is standard procedure)

- We have 3 jackpoints but he said that the install could only be done in one install and once done, I couldn't move my modem to another location for VDSL
- I have a 2870B modem capable of VDSL but he said I had to disconnect that and use the pre-programme modem supplied by Telecom
- He didn't get under the house to check any of the wiring as he said it's too difficult with the insulation and that he couldn't track any cables. Therefore he just did something on the Telecom box where the filter is installed outside the house and installed a new VDSL port inside the house.
- I questioned wheter the wiring needed to be checked or how this all worked but he said no this should be fine. I should see my speeds double and then over the next couple of week it should get faster.
- Checked ADSL speeds I was getting (16 down and 1 up). Checked VDSL speeds after install (10 down and 10 up). He said this was unusual but I should see some improvements in the near future. Said this was all he could do and walked away.

Do I have a valid reason to be concerned about anything above? Wondering how long I wait before I question the VDSL installation/performance. I'm 400m away from the green cabinet by the way.

Thanks for any info you guys can provide!

1. This means he installed a Master Splitter, which splits Voice and DSL directly at the point where the phone line enters your house, rather than standard installs with a small splitter coming out of a standard voice jack. This ensures that your house's internal (and likely old/crappy) wiring won't affect your VDSL performance. You will, indeed, need to keep to modem plugged into that one socket. You should be able to use a phone extender if that's a bad position, though.

2. Any VDSL modem will work, however Telecom (like all ISPs these days) provide a preconfigured modem with all the correct settings to Just Werk. This setup makes things easier for inexperienced customers and Telecom's helpdesk, but if you can find the settings you need, feel free to use your own.

3. As mentioned in 1, your houses internal wiring doesn't matter. The VDSL signal does not pass over any of it, and this is a good thing.

4. He is correct. Your speeds will likely increase as the DSLAM/Modem will negotiate a safe but slow setting to start with, and then slowly ramp up the speed until the line can't handle anymore.

5. Yep, nothing more he can do. You won't know your actual speed until the line speed negotiation is complete (what's the proper name for this?). Wait a week and check again. Leave the telecom modem on the whole week at least.

EDIT: Whoops, I didn't see the other posts when I went to write this. Perhaps some little bit may still be helpful lol. I'm no expert so advice of the others overrides mine :)

Thanks for your response...and to everyone else. It's amazing how quick and helpful people are around here! I'm obviously not impressed about the speeds and not much clearer about why this may be, but at least my concerns and questions about other things have been put at ease. Thanks to you all for taking the time to help a stranger! I feel a bit more knowledgeable now. Lol.

overkill

222 posts

Master Geek

#1092457 20-Jul-2014 13:22

By the sound of how your installation was done, the tech has used your existing copper pairs and just installed a splitter at the POE, no installation of Cat# outlet. This CAN have an effect on your VDSL speeds if you your wiring is only .4 copper and he has not doubled up the pairs. Every installation I have done, the upstream is effected by the attenuation at premises who are boarderlining the outskirts of the network, you have a 10meg upstream connection rate (awesome) and a troublesome downstream rate, something that I would certainly like to find out why. A test at the POE would certainly prove inside the premises or out on the network.

"Setting the Standard in Quality and Commitment"

Yabanize

2348 posts

Uber Geek

#1092479 20-Jul-2014 14:11

I guess DLM is a bit like overclocking your CPU, Ramps it up higher and higher to see how fast it can go while it stays stable

chevrolux

4962 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#1092484 20-Jul-2014 14:17

You must be quite a distance from the ISAM for sync speeds that terrible. Not surprising when you consider how relaxed Chorus are getting with VDSL - used to be a strict 10.8dB and now they just seem to provision it for anyone who asks for it.

As sbiddle mentioned, highly likely you have a dodgy pair. I don't really accept the notion that 20m of Cat5e/Cat6 from the lead-in to the modem makes all that much difference, I think that is just consultants with theoretical datasheets who came up with that idea. As long as there is a good quality piece of wire to the ETP where the splitter is things should be fine - note the wording, "good quality".

I believe the minimum service level for VDSL is 15Mbps download speed so Chorus either need to get it fixed or roll you back to ADSL2+ which will probably give you similar downstream rates but an abysmal 1Mbps upload rate. If I were you I would stick with the current 10/10 connection, that is what I want at my place!!!

1 | 2