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Wob



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NBN Co

# 39759 18-Aug-2009 18:18
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NZ Herald article: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10591591

Another blow to the industry!!!

Transfield, feeling the pressure from Telecom after they brought in Visionstream, are sufferring here.

Come on Telecom!! Take a really good look around you at what's happenning. By continually setting contractors against each other to drive down costs, you are destroying the telecommunications industry in NZ.




 

Now based in Perth WA.

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Any comments or posts are not necessarily the opinion of my employer - who are bloody marvelous by the way.


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  # 248284 18-Aug-2009 18:43
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And I Be your the people that work for that other compiny are Forin people our jobs are being taken from us left right and center this is not on

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Master Geek


  # 248290 18-Aug-2009 19:07
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Wob: NZ Herald article: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10591591

Another blow to the industry!!!

Transfield, feeling the pressure from Telecom after they brought in Visionstream, are sufferring here.

Come on Telecom!! Take a really good look around you at what's happenning. By continually setting contractors against each other to drive down costs, you are destroying the telecommunications industry in NZ.


It's called competition and it's how a free market works?  If someone can do the same (or better service) for less then of course you'd pick that one.  In fact 2 degrees is doing something similar right now (providing a service that's the same or better for less), where are the complaints about that?


Edited to clarify that 2 degrees is competing on provided service, not doing what the link above states :))

 
 
 
 


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  # 248308 18-Aug-2009 19:46
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Transfield also runs the Waiouru military base, and has a huge presence throughout the central north island.

It's also a company owned by Australia

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  # 248321 18-Aug-2009 20:10
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littlescott:
Wob: NZ Herald article: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10591591

Another blow to the industry!!!

Transfield, feeling the pressure from Telecom after they brought in Visionstream, are sufferring here.

Come on Telecom!! Take a really good look around you at what's happenning. By continually setting contractors against each other to drive down costs, you are destroying the telecommunications industry in NZ.


It's called competition and it's how a free market works?  If someone can do the same (or better service) for less then of course you'd pick that one.  In fact 2 degrees is doing something similar right now (providing a service that's the same or better for less), where are the complaints about that?




I think you would complain if your employer made you redundant them the next company will only employ you if you go and buy  your vehicle and all you tools and plant.  Cost around 40K.  Not many of their existed employees can raise that sort of money..  So expect the roll out of cabinetization and fiber to slow as the staff dries up..




Regards,

Old3eyes


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  # 248333 18-Aug-2009 20:42
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I can't see anything wrong with Telecom's decision to divide the $4 Billion worth of work for the next 10 years between 3 service companies (Visionstream, Transfield and Downer) instead of just 2 (Transfield and Downer). 

Sounds sensible to me, I don't see why Telecom shouldn't use an extra service company if they are better value for money and having a 3rd choice reduces risk/reliance on the other two.

The issue is being overhyped by the nanny state union backed left wing drama queens in the mainstream media from what I can see.



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Master Geek


  # 248373 18-Aug-2009 21:52
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old3eyes:
littlescott:
Wob: NZ Herald article: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10591591

Another blow to the industry!!!

Transfield, feeling the pressure from Telecom after they brought in Visionstream, are sufferring here.

Come on Telecom!! Take a really good look around you at what's happenning. By continually setting contractors against each other to drive down costs, you are destroying the telecommunications industry in NZ.


It's called competition and it's how a free market works?  If someone can do the same (or better service) for less then of course you'd pick that one.  In fact 2 degrees is doing something similar right now (providing a service that's the same or better for less), where are the complaints about that?




I think you would complain if your employer made you redundant them the next company will only employ you if you go and buy  your vehicle and all you tools and plant.  Cost around 40K.  Not many of their existed employees can raise that sort of money..  So expect the roll out of cabinetization and fiber to slow as the staff dries up..


Yes correct, I would complain if my employer did that but that option to come back as a contractor is certainly more appealing than being left jobless and on the street.  It's not even Telecom doing this, it's Transfield so that it can be more competitive as a third player enters the market.  Clearly how they're running isn't the most efficient or competitive and if they need to change how they work to survive and keep people in jobs then that's what they need to do.

I would rather my employer become more competitive and change how it operates than close down completely putting me out of work.  A lot of people these days aren't lucky enough to have the option.

Re: the setup cost., there was also this comment about the setup cost on the NBR article here, so it appears they're quite willing to help set the contractors.  It's a pretty good setup deal considering no bank would probably lend anyone 40K at even a reasonable interest rate.

"NBR understands Visionstream is offering each staffer a $3000 if they sign an owner/operator contract, plus a 36-month interest-free loan to help them buy their own van and other gear."


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Master Geek
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# 248379 18-Aug-2009 22:00
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This is how i feel at the moment
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGrKLNnGfZY

 
 
 
 


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  # 248386 18-Aug-2009 22:11
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Old man is facing his second redundancy (no compensation) for the 2nd time in 6 months due to these contract failures/changes of terms :( back to being the bread maker fo me again if hes one of the unlucky ones :/

A lot of it comes down to the Golden rule. He with the gold, makes the rules.

Previous employer.. contract with Telecom expired.. many ums and as they decided they had transfield/chorus to do the work instead.. his employer had no choice as there was no more work to do.. basically half the staff got laid off.

Luckily at the time transfield come to the party seeing an opportunity, with offers to hire a small number of those previously laid off to continue the work/tasks under them instead.

Back to square one once again..  the work/contract being dictated by the boys with the money and the guys doing the work can't support the numbers anymore :/

Fingeres crossed personally.

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  # 248401 18-Aug-2009 22:34
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Did you know...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cL9Wu2kWwSY

The US department of labor estimates that people at school today will have 10-14 jobs before the age of 38.

1 in 4 workers has been with their current employer for less than a year

1 in 2 has been there less than 5 years

.. and so on (see the video).


Wob



310 posts

Ultimate Geek

NBN Co

  # 248463 19-Aug-2009 07:55
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littlescott:
Yes correct, I would complain if my employer did that but that option to come back as a contractor is certainly more appealing than being left jobless and on the street.  It's not even Telecom doing this, it's Transfield so that it can be more competitive as a third player enters the market.  Clearly how they're running isn't the most efficient or competitive and if they need to change how they work to survive and keep people in jobs then that's what they need to do.

I would rather my employer become more competitive and change how it operates than close down completely putting me out of work.  A lot of people these days aren't lucky enough to have the option.

Re: the setup cost., there was also this comment about the setup cost on the NBR article here, so it appears they're quite willing to help set the contractors.  It's a pretty good setup deal considering no bank would probably lend anyone 40K at even a reasonable interest rate.

"NBR understands Visionstream is offering each staffer a $3000 if they sign an owner/operator contract, plus a 36-month interest-free loan to help them buy their own van and other gear."



You have a big heart!

I'm not just talking about the human costs here (which are devistating for those involved), there are other costs, those that affect Telecoms reputation, their place in NZ's telecommunications industry and their levels of customer service. As I wrote in a blog post last year:

"But what does this really mean for the customer?

It means that these contracting companies have bid for, and won these contracts to act as exclusive service partners for Telecom and TCL. Think about this for a minute, what do you think is the most importaint criteria for a telco when awarding these contracts? Money of course!! Telecom and TCL have got all these contracting companies undercutting each other to try and get these contracts, effectively nailing them down to the bare minimum - better to make $1 on each job rather than have no work at all. I remember being on some bullsh*t project management course once (it's not rocket science, it's the science that builds rockets! - barf!!?!), talking about the magic triangle of Costs, Time and Quality. You can guarantee that the telcos won't want to compromise time frames, and when they've screwed down the contractors costs it is going to be quality that suffers. For quality, read customer service."

I also blogged about Visionstream being awarded the Telecom patch of Auckland and Northland, and I reiterate, they may help you get set up, but you are then dependent on Vision stream for your work.




 

Now based in Perth WA.

Check out my blog
Any comments or posts are not necessarily the opinion of my employer - who are bloody marvelous by the way.


484 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  # 248480 19-Aug-2009 08:42
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Oblivian: Old man is facing his second redundancy (no compensation) for the 2nd time in 6 months due to these contract failures/changes of terms :( back to being the bread maker fo me again if hes one of the unlucky ones :/

A lot of it comes down to the Golden rule. He with the gold, makes the rules.

Previous employer.. contract with Telecom expired.. many ums and as they decided they had transfield/chorus to do the work instead.. his employer had no choice as there was no more work to do.. basically half the staff got laid off.

Luckily at the time transfield come to the party seeing an opportunity, with offers to hire a small number of those previously laid off to continue the work/tasks under them instead.

Back to square one once again..  the work/contract being dictated by the boys with the money and the guys doing the work can't support the numbers anymore :/

Fingeres crossed personally.


Who was the previous employer? as far as I know only downer and transfield had patch contracts - any other company is then subcontracted by one of the prime service companies...

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong, I have been out of telecom for a few years now




For billions of years since the outset of time, every single one of your ancestors survived, every single person on your Mum and Dads side, successfully looked after and passed onto you life.  What are the chances of that like?

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Ultimate Geek

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  # 248481 19-Aug-2009 08:45
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Commodore: And I Be your the people that work for that other compiny are Forin people our jobs are being taken from us left right and center this is not on


Ok apart from your incoherant grasp on the english language, you will find that there were no people willing to become service techs in NZ, a few years ago and continuing now there seems to be a huge unwillingness for NZ'ers to take on a trade, this has been born from everyone being pressured into getting a university education.

The fact of the matter is the world needs ditch diggers, trades people etc.  NZ'ers need to suck it up and realise that these jobs are good jobs.  That is what forced the service companies to look overseas for staff, because at home people believethey are "too good" for the work.

A bit of a problem with most trades these days, and an ageing workforce will only make it worse




For billions of years since the outset of time, every single one of your ancestors survived, every single person on your Mum and Dads side, successfully looked after and passed onto you life.  What are the chances of that like?

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  # 248502 19-Aug-2009 09:09
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Balchy: 
Who was the previous employer? as far as I know only downer and transfield had patch contracts - any other company is then subcontracted by one of the prime service companies...


Feel free to correct me if I am wrong, I have been out of telecom for a few years now


It was most likely GDC who had huge patches in the Auckland area.  They lost out to Transfield and co  when Telecom screwed down the rate several years ago. The line staff basically switched over to the new company.  GDC  went bankrupt about a year later..




Regards,

Old3eyes


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  # 248594 19-Aug-2009 11:59
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There is no evidence that I've seen that Visionstream will be less effective than Transfield for the work Telecom needs done.  I don't see how quality will magically suffer just because another company came up with a more competitive bid than Transfield.

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  # 248604 19-Aug-2009 12:11
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Ragnor: There is no evidence that I've seen that Visionstream will be less effective than Transfield for the work Telecom needs done.  I don't see how quality will magically suffer just because another company came up with a more competitive bid than Transfield.


You don't???

if a job is paid x amount regarless of the time it takes then wont the contractors be trying to complete the job in the quickest, sometimes that means taking shortcuts,

After speaking to the contractor at work yesterday the issue that most of them has is less about buying their own vans, equiptment etc but the travel allowances and the like, well in this guy's view anyway.

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