VOIP upgrade - my dealings with Vodafone

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#1955140 11-Feb-2018 12:01

antoniosk:

Ummm.... isn't this what this migration is all about? so VF doesn't have to pay Spark for a pots service when it can generate one perfectly well via voip from it's own kit?

It makes good business sense apart from the missed opportunity to give away free feature services like CLI and so on.

Especially when as their link so proudly says, "There will be no change to the amount you're charged for your Broadband and phone service." - so getting a worse service for the same price is hardly an upgrade.

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MikeHales

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#1955155 11-Feb-2018 13:00

Stu1:
Hi Mike, would Vodafone consider moving my VDSL jack point or sending customers an extension phone cable? I really don't want my answer phone base next to my TV, the phone you sent me actually says don't place it by a TV. I don't have any choice as that's where the VDSL modem jack had been positioned by Vodafone.

Apologies but no. But ideally you don't want modem next to TV either. Surprised it would be positioned there.

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#1955156 11-Feb-2018 13:04

hio77:

MikeHales:

@antoniosk

1. What happens if you are a VF customer, using a Spark wholesaled Voice service

> Nothing until Spark shutter their service.

are there plans to still use BBIP where service is poor. eg rural ADSL.

No, only VDSL at the moment.

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#1955165 11-Feb-2018 13:28

MikeHales:
Stu1:
Hi Mike, would Vodafone consider moving my VDSL jack point or sending customers an extension phone cable? I really don't want my answer phone base next to my TV, the phone you sent me actually says don't place it by a TV. I don't have any choice as that's where the VDSL modem jack had been positioned by Vodafone.

Apologies but no. But ideally you don't want modem next to TV either. Surprised it would be positioned there.

Thanks for the reply, that's where the Vodafone tech placed the modem and dedicated jack point for VDSL upgrade

sbiddle

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#1955174 11-Feb-2018 13:44

MikeHales:

Stu1:
Hi Mike, would Vodafone consider moving my VDSL jack point or sending customers an extension phone cable? I really don't want my answer phone base next to my TV, the phone you sent me actually says don't place it by a TV. I don't have any choice as that's where the VDSL modem jack had been positioned by Vodafone.

Apologies but no. But ideally you don't want modem next to TV either. Surprised it would be positioned there.

Why the surprise? It's a defacto position for an ONT in many installs because it's a totally logical place to have the Internet terminating in many homes.

Stu1

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#1955268 11-Feb-2018 16:15

sbiddle:
MikeHales:

Stu1:
Hi Mike, would Vodafone consider moving my VDSL jack point or sending customers an extension phone cable? I really don't want my answer phone base next to my TV, the phone you sent me actually says don't place it by a TV. I don't have any choice as that's where the VDSL modem jack had been positioned by Vodafone.

Apologies but no. But ideally you don't want modem next to TV either. Surprised it would be positioned there.

Why the surprise? It's a defacto position for an ONT in many installs because it's a totally logical place to have the Internet terminating in many homes.

I will end up buying a lead I've set the phone up for Tuesday's switch over its a horrible place for it, it's in a corner and it has to sit on the sub or the speaker.

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#1955771 12-Feb-2018 14:44

Stu1:
MikeHales:

Stu1:
Hi Mike, would Vodafone consider moving my VDSL jack point or sending customers an extension phone cable? I really don't want my answer phone base next to my TV, the phone you sent me actually says don't place it by a TV. I don't have any choice as that's where the VDSL modem jack had been positioned by Vodafone.

Apologies but no. But ideally you don't want modem next to TV either. Surprised it would be positioned there.

Thanks for the reply, that's where the Vodafone tech placed the modem and dedicated jack point for VDSL upgrade

2 Points:

1) VDSL port location: It probably wasn't a Vodafone tech. It would have been a Chorus tech, or their cheapest sub-contractor. Unfortunately, you need to hover over these guys when they're doing the job. Because they're on such tight budgets, they do a cheap job, not a best practise job. Even more so for fibre installs.

2) If you disconnect the house voice wiring from the line coming in from the street, you can back-feed the voice from the VOIP modem into the house voice wiring and locate your answerphone at any of the other voice jack points around the house. This is what I did and it works a charm. This can also help reduce the noise/reflections on the line, improving VDSL speeds so win-win.

Edit: Spelling.

Stu1

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#1955929 12-Feb-2018 18:03

tripper1000:
Stu1:
MikeHales:

Stu1:
Hi Mike, would Vodafone consider moving my VDSL jack point or sending customers an extension phone cable? I really don't want my answer phone base next to my TV, the phone you sent me actually says don't place it by a TV. I don't have any choice as that's where the VDSL modem jack had been positioned by Vodafone.

Apologies but no. But ideally you don't want modem next to TV either. Surprised it would be positioned there.

Thanks for the reply, that's where the Vodafone tech placed the modem and dedicated jack point for VDSL upgrade

2 Points:

1) VDSL port location: It probably wasn't a Vodafone tech. It would have been a Chorus tech, or their cheapest sub-contractor. Unfortunately, you need to hover over these guys when they're doing the job. Because they're on such tight budgets, they do a cheap job, not a best practise job. Even more so for fibre installs.

2) If you disconnect the house voice wiring from the line coming in from the street, you can back-feed the voice from the VOIP modem into the house voice wiring and locate your answerphone at any of the other voice jack points around the house. This is what I did and it works a charm. This can also help reduce the noise/reflections on the line, improving VDSL speeds so win-win.

Edit: Spelling.

Sorry probably was Chorus Voda organised it, the second point sounds good , how would I know which one is the voice wiring? or just get Chorus to come and do it? . I get moved on to VOIP tomorrow morning, hopefully it will all be successful otherwise will be getting grumpy calls from the wife at work

karit

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#1956769 14-Feb-2018 09:29

So had a quick skim over the thread.

By the looks VF won't release the SIP config details because they believe in security through obscurity? And scared if people know the config details they could be stolen and misused? I don't actually understand that argument and I work in IT security. Security through obscurity is not a thing and if there is a need to keep the config setting secret to keep the system secure indicates greater problems. As if a system is secure only the key material needs to be private, all the other details being public should not affect the security of the system.

Also shouldn't the customers be setting their own passwords and not having one set by VF? Using the word "issued" indicates to me that the passwords may be stored in clear text on their end as issued means giving out (opposed to setting), which is a big faux pas and security issue. VF should only have the hash of the password, so they (really the customer) should only be able to set one and never issue it.

So given by the looks we are not going to get the config details:

What is the setup going to be for people who run their own router at the border?
Can you plug the VF router (WAN port on VF router) into a port on the LAN side of your router (putting the VF kit in its own VLAN and firewalled off from the rest of the network and only giving it targeted internet access) and the phone into a phone port on the VF router. Will that setup work?
What are other people doing who have their own routers on the border and have a requirement for a landline?

MikeHales:

Re Single SIP port - residential customers only get a single line; business customers can have 2 lines, and both ports on modem work.

Re SIP Settings

Use of the SIP phone creates charges to a customer account. If the settings are openly available then it creates undue risk on the customer should those details get missued. Not issuing the password is one we studiously avoid.
Our SIP services and routers are designed to operate to a high quality to ensure the most reliable phone service. This cannot be guaranteed if the SIP line is used on another device. This is particularly important for emergency calling. So we only use our devices which are built and tested specifically to support our network.
We not able to support our SIP service on other devices as we cannot guarantee they will work correctly, if at all. Nor can we support the huge range of devices with the capability, therefore we have to limit support to our own devices.
Re releasing customers - the option to remain on existing service is available, so no change to service or price. Spark and Chorus will be gradually phasing out PSTN voice over the next few years and we want to prepare our customers before the PSTN network retires and remaining POTS users will have to migrate.

chevrolux

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#1958149 14-Feb-2018 16:53

By the looks VF won't release the SIP config details because they believe in security through obscurity? And scared if people know the config details they could be stolen and misused? I don't actually understand that argument and I work in IT security. Security through obscurity is not a thing and if there is a need to keep the config setting secret to keep the system secure indicates greater problems. As if a system is secure only the key material needs to be private, all the other details being public should not affect the security of the system.

I don't believe that would be their main reasoning. The main reason would be avoiding mis-configuration and less support to do with customers. Being a mass market SIP product they need to manage it end-to-end. They don't want to support someone trying to make their 20 year old PAP2T work.

I honestly don't see the big issue with Vodafone doing this mass migration. If people don't like it they should vote with their feet and go to a new provider. Vodafone will take notice if they lost say 10,000 customers all of a sudden.

Stu1

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#1958160 14-Feb-2018 17:11

My upgrade went great, answer phone base is by TV but managed to register 3 other handsets to the base so have 5 in total across the house. Have to say the call quality is way better

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#1958177 14-Feb-2018 17:35

chevrolux:

By the looks VF won't release the SIP config details because they believe in security through obscurity? And scared if people know the config details they could be stolen and misused? I don't actually understand that argument and I work in IT security. Security through obscurity is not a thing and if there is a need to keep the config setting secret to keep the system secure indicates greater problems. As if a system is secure only the key material needs to be private, all the other details being public should not affect the security of the system.

I don't believe that would be their main reasoning. The main reason would be avoiding mis-configuration and less support to do with customers. Being a mass market SIP product they need to manage it end-to-end. They don't want to support someone trying to make their 20 year old PAP2T work.

I can't see the VF logic behind this, what about the username/password for their internet login that is stored in the router, VF hand this information out with no problem

chevrolux

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#1958180 14-Feb-2018 17:46

To get a router working you need maybe three to five settings. There are a hell of a lot more to set up a SIP registration and make it work properly - the tones alone there are twenty-odd to set.

gregmcc

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#1958185 14-Feb-2018 17:53

chevrolux:

To get a router working you need maybe three to five settings. There are a hell of a lot more to set up a SIP registration and make it work properly - the tones alone there are twenty-odd to set.

It's not that hard, done it myself with no problems.

IMO it's all about locking a customer in, force them to buy the VF modem (or commit to a fixed term contract), so no matter how bad the service gets the customer still has to pay every month.

Best advice is to ditch the VF modem and the VF VOIP, buy your own modem and go with 2 talk, heaps of features for a very reasonable base price.

hio77

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#1958190 14-Feb-2018 17:56

gregmcc:
chevrolux:

To get a router working you need maybe three to five settings. There are a hell of a lot more to set up a SIP registration and make it work properly - the tones alone there are twenty-odd to set.

It's not that hard, done it myself with no problems.

IMO it's all about locking a customer in, force them to buy the VF modem (or commit to a fixed term contract), so no matter how bad the service gets the customer still has to pay every month.

Best advice is to ditch the VF modem and the VF VOIP, buy your own modem and go with 2 talk, heaps of features for a very reasonable base price.

Mike has posted earlier modems should be provided free of charge and with no required resign.

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Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

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