Anti-5G meeting on the North Shore, sigh

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Geek
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#2351497 11-Nov-2019 11:05

I have no particular view either way because I don't see any strong evidence for 5G being safe or unsafe.

Commenters here though are all behaving in much the same way the 'anti-5G' people are by being flippant and dismissive to their point of view, don't you think?

(e.g. 'the problem i have with the anti 5g ppl is they are taking any post someone posts to the pages as truth.')

Has everyone posting comments actually looked into any of the research that backs up their claims? Or have you simply dismissed it outright because that's what everyone else you know is doing?

Remember, we used to think fat was bad for us, smoking was harmless and asbestos was a safe, cheap and lightweight building material.

A quick Google search brings up this recent Scientific American article;

We Have No Reason to Believe 5G Is Safe

The technology is coming, but contrary to what some people say, there could be health risks

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/we-have-no-reason-to-believe-5g-is-safe/

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#2351503 11-Nov-2019 11:13

I agree that we'll probably never know the answer but it is more likely to be safe than not.

Brain cancer doesn't appear to have skyrocketed - that's like 100x 5G right next to the brain. Or thigh / genital cancer for males (who put phones in their pockets) - that has to be 5G in the pants.

The protesters should probably protest against broccoli. NZ has one of the highest mortality in the OECD from colon cancer.

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#2351535 11-Nov-2019 12:22

I've always found after deep diving the studies that the power levels involved are typically quite insane. The last Italian one was running something like 10 x the NZ legal limit for 10+ hours a day in order to see it's upswing in brain tumors. I dont think anyone's running towers close to the powers needed to hit the SAR limits unless your heads sitting next to the antenna

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neb

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#2351562 11-Nov-2019 13:16

MurrayM:
The anti-5G brigade have been gathering speed on the Shore (I live in Bayview/Glenfield). I've had notices put in my letterbox (ignoring the "No Junk Mail" sign) and I've seen stickers on council rubbish bins.

That's how I found out about it, and why I posted, I was worried that they might be organised enough that someone would start paying attention to them.

neb

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#2351563 11-Nov-2019 13:19

sbiddle:
You should stop listening to talkback.

Note that that's not specific to 5G, it's universal advice:

You should stop listening to talkback.

neb

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#2351566 11-Nov-2019 13:23

langi27:
The higher frequencies 3.5G to 60Ghz will need thousands of base stations and will likely be in building solution as the range is in 10-100's of meters. Not useful or practical for covering an entire city.

Thus my earlier comment about FR1 vs. FR2. The reason why FR2 is available is because it's such a useless band that no-one else wanted it. And to make it work you'd have to spend sums that make the UFB rollout look like pocket change, into areas that already have UFB everywhere.

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tripper1000

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#2352178 12-Nov-2019 12:15

@geekzen: I am quite dismissive but the reason is that their logic is fundamentally flawed (suspect others feel the same as me).

The potentially dangerous part is the radio waves bit, not the 5G bit. The same radio waves are used for jobs other than 5G but they're getting their knickers in a bunch about the irrelevant 5G bit.

Another way to think about it is comparing it to voice. 5G is the language used and radio waves or sound is the medium. Their logic is that a modern language (5g) or English is more harmful than older language say Latin or 2G. If anything is going to do harm it is the sound bit, not the language bit. Yes, extremely strong RF can hurt people, just like extremely loud sounds can hurt people. Changing the language doesn't make the sound any more safe or dangerous. Just like sound, the precautions for avoiding RF harm to people weren't known 80 years ago, but today are fairly well understood and strictly followed.

If someone told you English can harm your health but Latin is safe you'd mock them too.

tripper1000

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#2352181 12-Nov-2019 12:24

Incidentally just like nature is full of sound, nature is also full of RF. The most powerful transmitter hereabouts is the sun. Most peoples single biggest daily dosage of radiowaves is from nature. One of the things that limits the range of radio waves is that the roar of the universe drowns them out, so you have to be relatively closed to the transmitter to 'hear' them.

D.W

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#2352188 12-Nov-2019 12:51

geekzen:

A quick Google search brings up this recent Scientific American article;

We Have No Reason to Believe 5G Is Safe

The technology is coming, but contrary to what some people say, there could be health risks

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/we-have-no-reason-to-believe-5g-is-safe/

I note you didn't post this one: https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/dont-fall-prey-to-scaremongering-about-5g/

https://www.acsh.org/news/2017/02/28/uc-berkeley-psychologist-joel-moskowitz-cell-phone-wi-fi-truther-10928

If you're judging others for their input, how deep was your research before you decided to comment?

Handsomedan

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#2352322 12-Nov-2019 15:22

neb:
MurrayM:

The anti-5G brigade have been gathering speed on the Shore (I live in Bayview/Glenfield). I've had notices put in my letterbox (ignoring the "No Junk Mail" sign) and I've seen stickers on council rubbish bins.

That's how I found out about it, and why I posted, I was worried that they might be organised enough that someone would start paying attention to them.

I have been getting quite a bit of it on my Facebook feed due to one of my old mates being a ringleader in the anti-5G league.

He sent me an invite to the show last night but I had a prior commitment so couldn't go.

What surprises me is he's a very intelligent, well educated, fairly thoughtful individual. Knowing what i know of him, the "evidence" must be quite compelling, to sway someone like him...which is worrying. Lesser individuals and those with no actual knowledge would be easy to sway in their direction, if that's the case.

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#2352337 12-Nov-2019 15:45

Handsomedan:

What surprises me is he's a very intelligent, well educated, fairly thoughtful individual. Knowing what i know of him, the "evidence" must be quite compelling, to sway someone like him...which is worrying. Lesser individuals and those with no actual knowledge would be easy to sway in their direction, if that's the case.

There are plenty of well educated people that believe GE food will kill you or [insert other malady].....

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tripper1000

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#2352365 12-Nov-2019 16:30

Handsomedan: What surprises me is he's a very intelligent, well educated, fairly thoughtful individual. Knowing what i know of him, the "evidence" must be quite compelling, to sway someone like him...which is worrying. Lesser individuals and those with no actual knowledge would be easy to sway in their direction, if that's the case.

Plenty of smart people believe dumb things. Just because someone is smart doesn't mean they know what they're talking about and you should implicitly trust them. Hitler was reputed to have an extremely hi IQ.

geekzen

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#2352366 12-Nov-2019 16:34

tripper1000:

Handsomedan: What surprises me is he's a very intelligent, well educated, fairly thoughtful individual. Knowing what i know of him, the "evidence" must be quite compelling, to sway someone like him...which is worrying. Lesser individuals and those with no actual knowledge would be easy to sway in their direction, if that's the case.

Plenty of smart people believe dumb things. Just because someone is smart doesn't mean they know what they're talking about and you should implicitly trust them. Hitler was reputed to have an extremely hi IQ.

Indeed, and that goes both ways; those who are pro and those who are anti 5G. ;)

Oblivian

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#2352384 12-Nov-2019 17:35

And that right there as pointed out earlier, is the biggest gotcha people in the wild sitting with a keyboard and google infront forget/Focus on. And end up on the wrong path.

5G != 5G != 5G

Catch phrase/description. Not a physical 'thing'. 5th.. generation (of evolution). You can't be scared of a generational term. ( oh wait, Gen-X/Boomers.. perhaps we can :P )

'3G'.. Gsm. LTE, CDMA. 3G. Different frequency. Different tech. Different power rating required. Same marketing term. Same people that were against it because 'brancancer', now have smartphones against their privates...

Need to wait for the open article. But the telcos are wanting to fight back

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12284584

I imagine what they describe is evident with the amount of hours put in batting off the bandwagoners on their sponsored advert posts at present. Even if it has a picture of the americas cup boat and saying how it is helping them advance. First post.. petition link. 2nd, 'fix my signal, I got none'. Quickly followed by 'but I don't want 5G'

Chemtrails you say?, you wan't to do something - but noone gets off the keyboard and go stop the trucks with tanks that hookup to aircraft if that's apparently what happens. 2 things would happen. Person goes boom, or smells realllly bad and becomes a biohazard.

Always someone up the food chain. Everyones pointing the finger at telcos. Yet MBIE administer and approve the freqency usage requests.

neb

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#2352409 12-Nov-2019 19:00

Handsomedan:
What surprises me is he's a very intelligent, well educated, fairly thoughtful individual. Knowing what i know of him, the "evidence" must be quite compelling, to sway someone like him...which is worrying. Lesser individuals and those with no actual knowledge would be easy to sway in their direction, if that's the case.

You're thinking from the wrong direction, you assume he's made a rational decision. This is a reasonably well-research field by psychologists, people have a demarcation line for conspiracy theories along, say, a 1-10 scale, where everything above the point is obviously crazy nonsense while everything below the point is a genuine conspiracy. Conspiracy theorists are happy to have everything above that point debunked, but not anything below it. One such scale is the GCBS (something Conspiracy something Scale), but that's really more a paranoia scale than a conspiracy-theory scale.

In any case 5G is below his cutoff point, so it makes the grade. There'll probably be a bunch of other low-grade stuff he believes in.

Oh, and in case you're wondering, 10 on the scale is shapeshifting lizard aliens.

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