Why can't I run Mac OS X on Windows hardware?

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Geektastic

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#193611 17-Mar-2016 09:20

I could not decide exactly where this question belongs so apologies if it isn't here! Please move if appropriate.

I can run Windows on a Mac using Basecamp and boot to either.

Why then is the reverse not the case? Why is there no Basecamp equivalent allowing me to run El Capitan on a Windows machine?

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#1514857 17-Mar-2016 09:23

Because Apples TOS state you can only run OSX on Apple hardware.

That said, You *CAN* run OSX on a standard PC build using hackintosh.

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SaltyNZ

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2degrees

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#1514858 17-Mar-2016 09:24

Because Apple only want you to run OSX on Apple hardware. As a corollary, that also means that OSX only ships with drivers for hardware devices shipped in genuine Apple hardware. That means that virtual hardware (emulating non-Apple-shipped devices) or passthrough to non-Apple-hardware requires you to run unsigned drivers and so on.

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venomio

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#1514860 17-Mar-2016 09:27

In short: Because Apple.

Quote from somewhere on the internet with no source or proof from 2013:

Oddly enough? Apple systems check for a specific chip and refuse to run or install without it. This is called the system management controller, and in effect is a glorified fan controller amongst other things. Practically speaking, this is the reason, outside of some other specific things that might be different – such as video card firmware for video cards and OS X specific drivers for various things (sound cards come to mind) that you can’t ‘just’ boot a vanilla copy of OS X right on your beige box pc. Of course, this isn’t that hard to get around, which is why your average OS X hosted VM host can run OS X VMs, and there are Hackintosh distros floating around.

Most Hackintosh install methods these days use variations of boot132, a bootloader that was provided when Apple was transitioning from PPC to Intel with some modifications. The original bootloader was open source, and built with some changes for Darwin. As an aside, there have been some attempts to repackage Darwin as an open source OS.

Apple supports a limited range of hardware you know will work. Otherwise, you’re going to have to scrounge up tested hardware or hack hardware into working. This is what makes running OS X on commodity hardware difficult. The SMC is relatively trivial to get around. Getting your unsupported sound chip (nothing like having your mic stuck at maximum volume on a laptop to ruin your day), video adaptor, and other hardware is the tricky part. If you have an AMD processor, for example, the stock kernel will take one look at it and panic like a mouse ran up its pants. In many cases, the solution ends up being building a new kernel, with patches off Darwin source (which is FOSS) and using that.

In short, the big problem isn’t the magic chip, it is OS X needing to play nice with the entire system.

sidefx

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#1514864 17-Mar-2016 09:34

Because apple is a hardware company, whereas microsoft is a software and services company. Microsoft doesn't care what you run their software on, they still get the money. Apple cares very much what you run their software on. This is from 2013, but you get the idea:

from here:

http://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-google-microsoft-where-does-the-money-come-from/

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#1514866 17-Mar-2016 09:37

Because, Apple.

Geektastic

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#1514875 17-Mar-2016 09:47

Yet Apple do not charge a cent for OSX and only frustrate people already using it on their Macs elsewhere in all likelihood by taking this attitude.

It seems really odd that they are happy to allow Windows to run on their machines yet not so to do it the other way round. They go as far as to make Windows versions of iCloud, iTunes etc.

I see that they essentially want to ensure we only buy Apple hardware - something that I am usually happy to do. However (in my case) the Surface Pro 4 is a better machine for my mobile computing requirement than any Apple hardware currently available. It would be nice to simply be able to run OSX on it or Windows.

Hackintosh always seems to be slightly more complicated to execute than I am comfortable with!

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Lias

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#1514876 17-Mar-2016 09:54

My question is why would any sane individual want to use an Apple product?

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Geektastic

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#1514881 17-Mar-2016 09:57

Lias:

My question is why would any sane individual want to use an Apple product?

Because, at least until very recently, non-apple products had the design DNA of a black plastic box and ran the world's worst OS.....

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#1514882 17-Mar-2016 10:00

Geektastic:

Yet Apple do not charge a cent for OSX and only frustrate people already using it on their Macs elsewhere in all likelihood by taking this attitude.

It seems really odd that they are happy to allow Windows to run on their machines yet not so to do it the other way round. They go as far as to make Windows versions of iCloud, iTunes etc.

I see that they essentially want to ensure we only buy Apple hardware - something that I am usually happy to do. However (in my case) the Surface Pro 4 is a better machine for my mobile computing requirement than any Apple hardware currently available. It would be nice to simply be able to run OSX on it or Windows.

Hackintosh always seems to be slightly more complicated to execute than I am comfortable with!

But that's the problem; windows was tremendous bloatware because of the need for drivers to support every piece of sh*t hardware ever made, that people _could_ try to use. That it worked at all and so well was testament to the human effort expended, and even then their method was not efficient.

Apple picks and chooses the hardware and says 'this or nothing'. I was looking at hackintosh yesterday, and even they have limited the hardware range down to nearly nothing

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venomio

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#1514883 17-Mar-2016 10:01

Lias:

My question is why would any sane individual want to use an Apple product?

Because it's a free-ish world and people can make whatever choice they wish to make?

Before this turns into a Windows vs OSX, it's basically what we all wrote above; Microsoft is a (mainly) software company, Apple is not. It's annoying that there's no "one-click" way to dual-boot both, but the Hackintosh guides for El Capitan isn't that bad from what I remember.

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#1514889 17-Mar-2016 10:11

Geektastic:

Yet Apple do not charge a cent for OSX and only frustrate people already using it on their Macs elsewhere in all likelihood by taking this attitude.

It seems really odd that they are happy to allow Windows to run on their machines yet not so to do it the other way round. They go as far as to make Windows versions of iCloud, iTunes etc.

I see that they essentially want to ensure we only buy Apple hardware - something that I am usually happy to do. However (in my case) the Surface Pro 4 is a better machine for my mobile computing requirement than any Apple hardware currently available. It would be nice to simply be able to run OSX on it or Windows.

Hackintosh always seems to be slightly more complicated to execute than I am comfortable with!

Even is you could run OSX on the surface you would be losing the key thing that makes it great, the touch screen.

OSX doesn't support touch screens and won't until apple invents touch screens on a laptop

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MikeB4

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#1514908 17-Mar-2016 10:33

Lias:

My question is why would any sane individual want to use an Apple product?

For the same reason they buy non Apple products..... because they want to and they are free to do so.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

MikeB4

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#1514910 17-Mar-2016 10:39

Geektastic:

I could not decide exactly where this question belongs so apologies if it isn't here! Please move if appropriate.

I can run Windows on a Mac using Basecamp and boot to either.

Why then is the reverse not the case? Why is there no Basecamp equivalent allowing me to run El Capitan on a Windows machine?

Using Bootcamp and others like VMware on a Mac to run Windows is relatively easy and the user experience is OK, just that OK. It is possible to run OSX on non Apple hardware but I will honour the FUG and not

go into that, however I have experienced this in test environments and the results are patchy and the user experience horrible.

It's horses for courses, want OSX buy Apple products and enjoy the experience, want Windows buy non Apple products and enjoy the experience.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

lagbort

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#1514926 17-Mar-2016 10:52

Geektastic:

Lias:

My question is why would any sane individual want to use an Apple product?

Because, at least until very recently, non-apple products had the design DNA of a black plastic box and ran the world's worst OS.....

Where did you find a non-Apple PC that runs OSX?

Dairyxox

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#1514929 17-Mar-2016 10:57

You actually can run OSX on "Windows Hardware" (certain x86 compatible hardware), but its in breach of the OS X software T&C's, is unsupported, and its a bit of a hack.

Meaning you will have to mess about for hours in the best of circumstances, and make sure you have hardware that is compatible.

Have a look at this:Building a (sub-$1000) Hackintosh that meets the Oculus Rift hardware requirements – Part II

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