Do you want the flag to stay as it is?

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6325 posts

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#1510545 10-Mar-2016 13:24

Its on his facebook page, its too long for cut and paste, just go have a look hes a public profile.

I did like his answer to someone trying to say because hes a public profile he shouldnt be making statements, his response, basically its a refrendum not an election and he IS trying to sway votes. that comment alone got 20k likes lol. well thought out guy, unlike richies trendy comments.

I still think they needed to have used designers and actually produced flags so you get a real idea what they look like. It changes a lot from an icon to a flowing flag including the colours due to the sun etc. I think its simply a case none are flag worthy aside from whether we should change or not. Just my opinion.

sidefx

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#1510584 10-Mar-2016 14:04

alexx:

Most of the designs proposed fail in this regard, including all the Lockwood designs.

This Ted Talk video should required viewing for anyone selecting flags:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnv5iKB2hl4

Interesting that people keep saying none of the flags were good, and linking to this Video as an example of "how it should be done" - Roman Mars was actually asked about the flag and directed people to Ted Kaye instead, as he was in Roman's view the real expert. Ted Kaye in turn said:

I would pick Kyle Lockwood’s Silver Fern (Black & White) design. I think of Canada’s maple leaf flag. It’s simple, evocative, and a child can draw it from memory. It will work in any media: in print, as a tattoo, as a flag.

So what was that about all the Lockwood designs failing? He actually went on to say the following about all the flags:

All of them are really top flags. With the exception of the issues of the stars bordered in red, which is left over from the current flag, all of them would score a 9 or a 10. They’re wildly successful flag designs.

References:

http://goo.gl/GWuNmk

http://blog.ted.com/how-roman-mars-gave-the-ted-talk-he-wanted/

The continued assertions that all the flag designs were rubbish, and didn't follow good flag design principles just doesn't seem to hold up.

On the other hand, Nigel Latta does raise a good point that ignoring the money already wasted on the referendum, the costs to change the flag to a new one will probably still be significant... Money that could be better spent elsewhere.

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nathan

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#1510598 10-Mar-2016 14:22

I don't get the money argument at all.

MSD spends that money in 1/2 a day on beneficiaries and superannuation.

I think its really sad NZ is giving up the once in a generation option to modernize the flag :(

MikeAqua

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#1510633 10-Mar-2016 15:14

I've found the flag debate interesting.

After the sizeable support on social media it barely registered with those who voted.

So to what extent does social media reflect the views of voters (i.e. people who actually vote)?

Would the results have been different if it wasn't a postal ballot?

I can live with the current flag and I like with the suggested new one.

I've recently tipped toward changing the flag. The new design is unique, the current is far from unique. The union jack means very little to me.

The silver fern means something to me on several levels - being in our native forests, watching the ABs crush all opponents, the fern is also on our coat of arms and the graves of our fallen soldiers. The opposition ripping into Key on this (especially the greens) makes me want to back him.

That's a multi-faceted and probably eclectic personal reaction but it's how I'll vote. I respect everyone's choice on this. It's very personal thing. I don't think there's a rationale or responsible way to vote.

Mike

roobarb

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#1510634 10-Mar-2016 15:15

Nathan:

I think its really sad NZ is giving up the once in a generation option to modernize the flag :(

Perhaps the intent is to get a flag that represents the majority people rather than a flag that is different just for the sake of it.

shk292

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#1510644 10-Mar-2016 15:25

MikeAqua:

I've found the flag debate interesting.

After the sizeable support on social media it barely registered with those who voted.

So to what extent does social media reflect the views of voters (i.e. people who actually vote)?

Would the results have been different if it wasn't a postal ballot?

I can live with the current flag and I like with the suggested new one.

I've recently tipped toward changing the flag. The new design is unique, the current is far from unique. The union jack means very little to me.

The silver fern means something to me on several levels - being in our native forests, watching the ABs crush all opponents, the fern is also on our coat of arms and the graves of our fallen soldiers. The opposition ripping into Key on this (especially the greens) makes me want to back him.

That's a multi-faceted and probably eclectic personal reaction but it's how I'll vote. I respect everyone's choice on this. It's very personal thing. I don't think there's a rationale or responsible way to vote.

My views are similar; I was sitting on the fence regarding which way to vote but the irrational anti-Key vitriol from the usual suspects has prompted me to vote for change.

Sideface

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#1510647 10-Mar-2016 15:28

roobarb: <snip> Perhaps the intent is to get a flag that represents the majority people rather than a flag that is different just for the sake of it.

Using the "representative flag" argument, the existing New Zealand and Australian flags appear to represent British expats living in the Southern hemisphere.

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roobarb

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#1510686 10-Mar-2016 16:47

Sideface:

roobarb: <snip> Perhaps the intent is to get a flag that represents the majority people rather than a flag that is different just for the sake of it.

Using the "representative flag" argument, the existing New Zealand and Australian flags appear to represent British expats living in the Southern hemisphere.

For fern's sake, leaf it alone, I'm star-ting to see black and blue.

Sideface

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#1510829 10-Mar-2016 18:51

roobarb: <snip> For fern's sake, leaf it alone, I'm star-ting to see black and blue.

I hear and I obey, oh master.

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tdgeek

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#1510916 10-Mar-2016 21:18

nathan:

I don't get the money argument at all.

MSD spends that money in 1/2 a day on beneficiaries and superannuation.

I think its really sad NZ is giving up the once in a generation option to modernize the flag :(

NAILED IT

tdgeek

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#1510922 10-Mar-2016 21:25

MikeAqua:

I've found the flag debate interesting.

After the sizeable support on social media it barely registered with those who voted.

So to what extent does social media reflect the views of voters (i.e. people who actually vote)?

Would the results have been different if it wasn't a postal ballot?

I can live with the current flag and I like with the suggested new one.

I've recently tipped toward changing the flag. The new design is unique, the current is far from unique. The union jack means very little to me.

The silver fern means something to me on several levels - being in our native forests, watching the ABs crush all opponents, the fern is also on our coat of arms and the graves of our fallen soldiers. The opposition ripping into Key on this (especially the greens) makes me want to back him.

That's a multi-faceted and probably eclectic personal reaction but it's how I'll vote. I respect everyone's choice on this. It's very personal thing. I don't think there's a rationale or responsible way to vote.

I agree. Some don't like change. I see the new flag as very very similar to the old flag, all we are doing is replacing the Union Jack (bless the Queen) with the Kiwi equivalent of the Union Jack. I respect the Queen and the Commonwealth, but these days its very traditional only, we are an independent state. The Queen signs off the laws as that is custom, it will ALWAYS happen, she won't not sign. Thats great. But this is 2016. To those that say the silver fern is a sports symbol, no it isn't its a kiwi symbol that Kiwis, sportspeople, and business and tourist enterprises use.

tdgeek

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#1510927 10-Mar-2016 21:26

roobarb:

Nathan:

I think its really sad NZ is giving up the once in a generation option to modernize the flag :(

Perhaps the intent is to get a flag that represents the majority people rather than a flag that is different just for the sake of it.

Represents NZ

elpenguino

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#1510928 10-Mar-2016 21:28

tdgeek:

I think its really sad NZ is giving up the once in a generation option to modernize the flag :(

There's no law stopping another referendum later this year or any other time so give it a rest with the once in a lifetime nonsense.

Come up with a better design and I'll be in.

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

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#1510936 10-Mar-2016 21:43

elpenguino: <snip> There's no law stopping another referendum later this year or any other time so give it a rest with the once in a lifetime nonsense. ...

If the referendum votes is retain the status quo, as it probably will do (for all the wrong reasons IMHO), then it will be a very brave politician who tries again - at least until Queen Elizabeth is dead.

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tdgeek

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#1510962 10-Mar-2016 22:23

elpenguino:

tdgeek:

I think its really sad NZ is giving up the once in a generation option to modernize the flag :(

There's no law stopping another referendum later this year or any other time so give it a rest with the once in a lifetime nonsense.

Come up with a better design and I'll be in.

WTF I never said that, I do recall the post though

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