Do you want the flag to stay as it is?

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Dulouz

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#191763 15-Feb-2016 20:57

My daughter has a school assignment where she has to interview one person who wants the flag to change and another who wants it to stay how it is. Finding someone who wants the flag to change was easy but she is struggling to find someone to wants the current flag to stay.

If you are someone who does want the flag to stay as it is she would appreciate it if you could answer the following questions. We only need one response.

Do you think we should change our flag?
Why do you think that?
If there was a different option (ie not the Silver Fern) would you change your mind?
Did you agree with the Red Peak design being included in the first referendum?
Was there another design you would have liked to see included in the first referendum? If so, which one?
What do you think makes New Zealand special?
What symbols best represent New Zealand’s unique character?

Amanon

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#1492837 15-Feb-2016 21:07

Chuckle. I'm surprised she couldn't find someone that wanted the current flag to stay. I suspect there are many more of them than backers of change. In fact I'm 100% confident I'll be prove right on voting day.

No, I don't want it to change because it's our flag. I'm unable to answer questions 3-7 with respect to anythign flag related.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

scuwp

3885 posts

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#1492841 15-Feb-2016 21:13

Big questions! I too am surprised seeing as all polls have the "keep current flag" as the clear majority.

#1 No

#2 because there is no good reason to. Give me a call when we become a republic, maybe then would be a better time.

#3 No

#4 didn't care less

#5 No

#6 where to begin

#7 there lots of symbols depending on purpose.

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

Dulouz

883 posts

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#1492842 15-Feb-2016 21:15

I forgot to mention she needs to discuss the findings in class so it would be useful if someone could give her a little something to work with.

Amanon

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#1492882 15-Feb-2016 21:26

No
The option looks like a beach towel
Yes if it was a good design
No
Yes, anything other than the four (or was it five?)
can-do attitude
no 8 wire + shotgun

nzkc

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#1492887 15-Feb-2016 21:40

Do you think we should change our flag?
Yes
Why do you think that?
I think our values and the values of the UK are diverging. The UK certainly seems to care less and less about us. I think we can stand alone in the world today and having the Union Flag in the corner ties us down. When I first saw the alternative design flying on the harbour bridge next to the current design I was definitely more emotionally attached to the alternative design.
If there was a different option (ie not the Silver Fern) would you change your mind?
I voted for the red/blue version of the Lockwood flag as my first preference and the black/blue as 2nd. Its hard to say if another design was an option would I still vote for it? To be honest, I didnt like the Koro (aka Hypno Flag) or the black NZTE fern. I'd have supported Red Peak if it were chosen.
Did you agree with the Red Peak design being included in the first referendum?
I didn't really care all that much. I didnt like that design as it evoked absolutely zero emotion for me. It seemed corporate in its design. I found it amusing that there was such a movement behind it and none behind a very very similar flag (almost identical). I was even more amused when Peak Engineering's logo became known about.
Was there another design you would have liked to see included in the first referendum? If so, which one?
None in particular. I was disappointed at the similarity of the four original flags and would have preferred a more varied choice of options.
What do you think makes New Zealand special?
So much really! We have a fantastic environment to grow up and live in. There's so much to see and do here and its still relatively cheap to live here for the quality of life we demand and receive. I love that we don't take ourselves too seriously (at least most of the time). I've been to a few places around the world and there's nowhere else I would want to live and bring my children up in.
What symbols best represent New Zealand’s unique character?
I don't know. I definitely feel attached to the fern as something that represents New Zealand yet I couldn't say it represents our "unique character".

Geektastic

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#1492894 15-Feb-2016 21:56

Do you think we should change our flag?

Why do you think that?

Firstly it is a huge waste of money. Secondly, what's the point? Flags serve little purpose in the 21st century as we no longer require them to identify rally points on a battlefield. I'd rather keep the one we have which works just fine or become the first nation not to have one at all.

If there was a different option (ie not the Silver Fern) would you change your mind?

Did you agree with the Red Peak design being included in the first referendum?

No. It was the worst example of the vacuous nature of social media I have ever seen.

Was there another design you would have liked to see included in the first referendum? If so, which one?

No. Although the Kiwi with the laser eyes winning would have summed up the whole experience nicely.

What do you think makes New Zealand special?

There's no reason why it should be any more or less special than anywhere else. As they say here, it is what it is.

What symbols best represent New Zealand’s unique character?

Tell me what it is and I will be better able to answer.

Linuxluver

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#1492911 15-Feb-2016 22:51

Dulouz:

My daughter has a school assignment where she has to interview one person who wants the flag to change and another who wants it to stay how it is. Finding someone who wants the flag to change was easy but she is struggling to find someone to wants the current flag to stay.

If you are someone who does want the flag to stay as it is she would appreciate it if you could answer the following questions. We only need one response.

Do you think we should change our flag?
Why do you think that?
If there was a different option (ie not the Silver Fern) would you change your mind?
Did you agree with the Red Peak design being included in the first referendum?
Was there another design you would have liked to see included in the first referendum? If so, which one?
What do you think makes New Zealand special?
What symbols best represent New Zealand’s unique character?

1. Yes.

2. Get rid of the Union Jack and at the same have a distinctive Kiwi flag.

3. I'm happy enough with the B&W Lockwood flag that won in the first referendum. It's better than the current flag (see 2).

4. The more the merrier. Didn't care.

5. This one. To me, NZ is the blue sky and sea and the green land. Black and white have no real place in the landscape. There were no blue and green choices in the end.

6. I don't think of any place as "special". Some are better than others due to situation, resources, climate and perhaps some of the people.... But beyond that lies jingoistic hype and propaganda.

7. The Southern Cross, koru and silver fern are all important symbols to Maori and the white settlers who colonised NZ. That Maori / settler hybrid is unique on this planet. It is found nowhere else. These symbols allude to it.

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nakedmolerat

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#1492943 16-Feb-2016 00:24

Linuxluver:
Dulouz:

My daughter has a school assignment where she has to interview one person who wants the flag to change and another who wants it to stay how it is. Finding someone who wants the flag to change was easy but she is struggling to find someone to wants the current flag to stay.

If you are someone who does want the flag to stay as it is she would appreciate it if you could answer the following questions. We only need one response.

Do you think we should change our flag?

Why do you think that?

If there was a different option (ie not the Silver Fern) would you change your mind?

Did you agree with the Red Peak design being included in the first referendum?

Was there another design you would have liked to see included in the first referendum? If so, which one?

What do you think makes New Zealand special?

What symbols best represent New Zealand’s unique character?

1. Yes.

2. Get rid of the Union Jack and at the same have a distinctive Kiwi flag.

3. I'm happy enough with the B&W Lockwood flag that won in the first referendum. It's better than the current flag (see 2).

4. The more the merrier. Didn't care.

5. This one. To me, NZ is the blue sky and sea and the green land. Black and white have no real place in the landscape. There were no blue and green choices in the end.

6. I don't think of any place as "special". Some are better than others due to situation, resources, climate and perhaps some of the people.... But beyond that lies jingoistic hype and propaganda.

7. The Southern Cross, koru and silver fern are all important symbols to Maori and the white settlers who colonised NZ. That Maori / settler hybrid is unique on this planet. It is found nowhere else. These symbols allude to it.

This is a compete fail as OP is looking for someone who want to keep the current flag.

Inphinity

2780 posts

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#1492993 16-Feb-2016 08:25

1. No

2. Yet to hear a compelling, logical reason for doing so. There is significant cost, disruption, effort etc involved. There needs to be more than a "boo hoo I don't like it" reason to do so.

3. Only if the different option came with a compelling reason to change.

4. Is that the one that looked kinda like the old Adobe logo?

5. The one that had a compelling reason to be there.

6. Nothing anymore.

7. These days I suspect it'd be a crying baby.

sxz

761 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1493022 16-Feb-2016 08:52

Do you think we should change our flag? - No.
Why do you think that? - Originally I was against changing because I like our current flag, and because I thought the referendum was a waste of money. I am not concerned that our flag is like Australia's- there are heaps of flags out there that are very similar already - that's not a reason to change. During the process I warmed to the idea, and was open to other new flags, but I strongly dislike the chosen kyle lockwood flag. EDIT: the Union Jack represents our shared heritage & our ties with the UK. I don't think having it in our flag demeans us or belittles our independence in any way, but it recognizes our history, which our legal / political system is based on.
If there was a different option (ie not the Silver Fern) would you change your mind? I try to keep an open mind. I like our flag, but for the right flag I could agree to change. I quite liked Mike Davison's Black Jack flag, Mike Archer's Land of the Long White Cloud (Ocean Blue), and one or two others that didn't make the top 40, but none of them really jumped out at me as being so good they should replace our current flag.
Did you agree with the Red Peak design being included in the first referendum? Yes. There was clearly public support for it. It's not like the flag selection process was democratic anyway, it was selected by a panel who were not even flag experts, and not based on public opinion (although I am sure they listed to public opinion, it was the panel's decision). Personally, I liked that it looked more like a flag than any of the silver fern options, but I didn't like the colours / design of it.
Was there another design you would have liked to see included in the first referendum? If so, which one? Yes, but I have no idea how to find them again without going through the 10,000 options! There was one I liked that I couldn't find that was a mix of these three: https://www.govt.nz/browse/engaging-with-government/the-nz-flag-your-chance-to-decide/gallery/design/30454; https://www.govt.nz/browse/engaging-with-government/the-nz-flag-your-chance-to-decide/gallery/design/20533; https://www.govt.nz/browse/engaging-with-government/the-nz-flag-your-chance-to-decide/gallery/design/5974
What do you think makes New Zealand special? Our remoteness, our environment (including our ocean) and our people.
What symbols best represent New Zealand’s unique character? Kiwi, Green (environment), blue (clear & clean sky / ocean), Maori designs - koru etc. I never quite realized until I traveled overseas just how filthy many countries are, how water often isn't actually blue because of pollution, same with the sky - what we have here really is special - so blue /green would be ideal for me. Bonus answer: I am strongly opposed to the sliver fern logo being part of our flag. It is a great logo, well known and easily recognized - but these are not reasons to put it on the flag. Firstly: we are so much more than the games/sports that we play. Our country is so much more than the all blacks / silver ferns / black caps / tall blacks / black sticks etc. etc. etc. Why narrow ourselves to just one recognized logo? The silver fern will always be widely associated with sport, and that is great - it doesn't need to be a flag too. It reminds me of being back in 5th form when we would have a 45 minute assembly once a week to hear about all the amazing sporting achievements 10% of the students have had while ignoring everyone else. Our country is so much more than sport / silver fern. Why not have a great flag that doesn't appear to focus on sport? Secondly: we aren't even allowed to use the silver fern (TM) that everyone most widely associates - the All Blacks silver fern.

roobarb

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#1493023 16-Feb-2016 08:57

Dulouz: she is struggling to find someone to wants the current flag to stay.

Given current polls suggest 2/3 don't want change, is your daughter being schooled abroad? If you were in NZ all you would need to do is go to the RSA.

jmh

458 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1493026 16-Feb-2016 09:03

I won't answer in full since you have some good ones already. I don't feel the fern represents me. In fact I find it rather embarrassing that this country could be represented by a sports logo. Is that all we are? I'm not that bothered about rugby - I'd rather go the library and read a book than watch a game.

I do feel that when we lose the union jack we should have some Maori representation on the flag. The shortlisted offering looks great on a pack of butter, but isn't really flag material.

dclegg

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#1493032 16-Feb-2016 09:17

Dulouz:

My daughter has a school assignment where she has to interview one person who wants the flag to change and another who wants it to stay how it is. Finding someone who wants the flag to change was easy but she is struggling to find someone to wants the current flag to stay.

If you are someone who does want the flag to stay as it is she would appreciate it if you could answer the following questions. We only need one response.

Do you think we should change our flag?
Why do you think that?
If there was a different option (ie not the Silver Fern) would you change your mind?
Did you agree with the Red Peak design being included in the first referendum?
Was there another design you would have liked to see included in the first referendum? If so, which one?
What do you think makes New Zealand special?
What symbols best represent New Zealand’s unique character?

1. No.

2. Based on the alternative flag offered as a choice, our current flag is far superior

3. Yes. If Red Peak had won the first referendum, I would've voted for that.

4. Yes. It showed democracy at work. A lot of people liked it, so the Government gave us the chance to see how popular it actually was.

5. Yes. The traditional white on black Silver Fern

6. We may be a small country, but we punch above our weight in so many areas. We're also not afraid to stand up to the big guys if we see injustices being done.

7. Symbols of strength, unity, nods to our Maori heritage, and our affinity for the beach & mountains.

jonathan18

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#1493034 16-Feb-2016 09:20

UMR poll results came out yesterday showing 65% wanting to retain the current flag. Broken down by party, 50% of National supporters indicated preference to retain, versus 70% of Labour (perhaps linked to a further point below?).

The poll also looked at reasons behind their decision; of those supporting the status quo, 66% said tradition/history; 66% overall (47% National voters) said the process was a waste of money and a distraction, and this would send a message to John Key.

From those supporting the change: confusion with the Aus flag (50%); NZ needs a flag to represent its status as an independent sovereign nation (35%); will be no further chance to change the flag in decades (29%).

Most interestingly, 29% of those who said they supported retaining the current flag said in principle they agreed with changing the flag but didn't like the selected alternative.

Source: http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/201789280/politics-with-matthew-hooton-and-stephen-mills

BTR

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#1493049 16-Feb-2016 09:48

I like John Olivers flag idea.

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