IN or OUT? All on in the UK for the next 10 weeks.

Forums › Off topic › IN or OUT? All on in the UK for the next 10 weeks.

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#1569366 10-Jun-2016 12:51

With some recent polls showing that a Brexit may be on the cards -

Nigel Farage's last comments in the EU Parliament were “I hope we are going to leave this union on June 23 and so... I'm going out now, I may be some time.”

In other news

The EU Economic and Monetary Affairs Committee last week passed the introduction of a unique European Tax number. This is another step in the federalisation of Europe and even the British will have to comply. I guess the EU Tax ambitions are going ahead.

ScuL

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#1569369 10-Jun-2016 12:54

Being Dutch I can tell you that the majority of those sentiments have to do with the massive influx of refugees in Europe and the desire to control our own borders. A Nexit, similarly to a Brexit would be mainly based on gut feel and emotional sentiments.

A strong majority of the Dutch population still supports EU membership based on the economical benefits. (56% at least)

Haere taka mua, taka muri; kaua e wha.

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#1569373 10-Jun-2016 13:00

ScuL:

Being Dutch I can tell you that the majority of those sentiments have to do with the massive influx of refugees in Europe and the desire to control our own borders. A Nexit, similarly to a Brexit would be mainly based on gut feel and emotional sentiments.

A strong majority of the Dutch population still supports EU membership based on the economical benefits. (56% at least)

Just wait until the hagelslag tax comes in...!

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#1569374 10-Jun-2016 13:03

The one thing that isn't really happening and should be, is that the autocrats at the helm of the EU need to publicly acknowledge that they have taken things too far, got some things badly wrong, annoyed too many people and need a bit of a change of emphasis and direction.

Had they condescended to do that, I am sure a lot less people across Europe would be annoyed.

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#1569375 10-Jun-2016 13:06

I don't disagree, the EU needs reforming and certainly needs to become less of a burden by implementing laws that are more a nuisance than a benefit. Thinking in a great perspective however synchronising legislation across Europe is not a bad thing. There are some countries that are really taking the piss (Spain, Italy, Greece, for instance), and some countries that are seeing their wealth flow out (Germany, Sweden, Holland, UK, etc). I see the Brexit more as a wake-up call than anything else

Haere taka mua, taka muri; kaua e wha.

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#1569408 10-Jun-2016 13:30

ScuL:

I don't disagree, the EU needs reforming and certainly needs to become less of a burden by implementing laws that are more a nuisance than a benefit. Thinking in a great perspective however synchronising legislation across Europe is not a bad thing. There are some countries that are really taking the piss (Spain, Italy, Greece, for instance), and some countries that are seeing their wealth flow out (Germany, Sweden, Holland, UK, etc). I see the Brexit more as a wake-up call than anything else

I always felt that the problem with the Euro in particular was that they liked to pretend it was like the US Dollar and that the various nations would become like US States.

However, in simple terms, a loaf of bread in LA costs pretty much what it costs anywhere in the US, paid for with the same money.

In the Euro Zone, you can use the same money but the price of things is affected by national economies so bread may cost 2 Euros in one place and 5 in another and 8 in another.

They harmonised the money but not the economy, which was never likely to work terribly well.

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#1569411 10-Jun-2016 13:35

Harmonising economic systems eg tax, pensions etc is an impossible task EU wide.

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#1569420 10-Jun-2016 13:52

I am probably wrong and I am OK to be told so and shown thusly but from what I have read the UK is better off in Europe as opposed to being out of Europe.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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#1569449 10-Jun-2016 14:36

MikeB4: I am probably wrong and I am OK to be told so and shown thusly but from what I have read the UK is better off in Europe as opposed to being out of Europe.

I think it's one of those questions that is impossible to answer. It's all hypothetical. And even in the future it will be impossible to say what the outcome would have been if the result had gone the other way.

For me it's not about economics or immigration. It's about the extra unelected layer of bureaucracy and the potential final destination ie a federal Europe.

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#1569720 10-Jun-2016 19:41

Geektastic:

Just wait until the hagelslag tax comes in...!

Nope, wont happen. Well, not until we see the "Blackpool stick o' rock" tax.

There are however, going to be new European Corporate Tax rules introduced soon that will oversee the whole "union". These rules will remove individual state tax governance across the union, to be replaced by a minimum corporate tax rate of 15% applied across the union.

Once inter state tax initiatives are removed, what will happen to that minimum rate? Will it be increased to 20%? And how quickly? Then 35%?

There are also rumours about a further tax to be paid within 15 years of the successful implementation of the above taxation rules, that will affect companies that do not have their Head Office based in Europe.

Most UK politicians are aware of this possibility, so how can they support a Brexit (even if they know it is the right thing to do from a Sovereignty perspective)?

Yes, as demonstrated by the US and China, market size gives you not only incredible purchasing powers, it also gives you incredible taxation powers.

So, where does that leave us? I hope most of us enjoy hogget cooked in butter lol.

Seriously, I do not normally subscribe to rumours - but the EU has grown by "stealth" which, let's face it, were "just rumours in their day".

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Old age and experience just makes you feel guilty that you did not see it coming!

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#1569794 10-Jun-2016 22:04

SJB:

Harmonising economic systems eg tax, pensions etc is an impossible task EU wide.

I agree - but They think it can be done...and want to do it.

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#1569796 10-Jun-2016 22:08

DaveB:

Geektastic:

Just wait until the hagelslag tax comes in...!

Nope, wont happen. Well, not until we see the "Blackpool stick o' rock" tax.

There are however, going to be new European Corporate Tax rules introduced soon that will oversee the whole "union". These rules will remove individual state tax governance across the union, to be replaced by a minimum corporate tax rate of 15% applied across the union.

Once inter state tax initiatives are removed, what will happen to that minimum rate? Will it be increased to 20%? And how quickly? Then 35%?

There are also rumours about a further tax to be paid within 15 years of the successful implementation of the above taxation rules, that will affect companies that do not have their Head Office based in Europe.

Most UK politicians are aware of this possibility, so how can they support a Brexit (even if they know it is the right thing to do from a Sovereignty perspective)?

Yes, as demonstrated by the US and China, market size gives you not only incredible purchasing powers, it also gives you incredible taxation powers.

So, where does that leave us? I hope most of us enjoy hogget cooked in butter lol.

Seriously, I do not normally subscribe to rumours - but the EU has grown by "stealth" which, let's face it, were "just rumours in their day".

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Old age and experience just makes you feel guilty that you did not see it coming!

Certainly saw it coming. Have been railing agin it for a couple of decades!

ScuL

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#1569921 11-Jun-2016 11:33

Geektastic:

I agree - but They think it can be done...and want to do it.

I think it can be done too, and I can't think of anything better than a federal Europe. Globalisation is a process that is unstoppable and inevitable.
Look at a map of Europe in the middle ages and you will spot around 500 countries, nowadays that has been reduced to less than 10% of that.

2 centuries from now the world will probably only have up to 10 federal states. You can see this happening in SEA, Africa, South America etc.

It does not mean that regions will lose their culture, if you look at the US you can clearly see that Texas has a completely different culture than California or Florida.

Plus; the only way we are ever going to be able to explore space in a peaceful way is by harmonising the world.

Haere taka mua, taka muri; kaua e wha.

DaveB

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#1569927 11-Jun-2016 11:57

MikeB4: I am probably wrong and I am OK to be told so and shown thusly but from what I have read the UK is better off in Europe as opposed to being out of Europe.

Depends which side of the fence you are sitting on I guess.

Watch Brexit - The Movie which is on youtube. I wonder how many of us here in NZ would say "Hey, we really do need to belong to that". Around the 32 minute mark is quite funny where they go into detail about the number of laws for everyday items.

Obviously, as the name implies, this is pro Brexit, but it gives you a very good idea of many of the issues that are at stake.

It just confirms my belief that I made the right decision to live and bring up my kids over here.

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#1569934 11-Jun-2016 12:16

I see that Brexit is hitting 55% in the polls and so Remain are now playing the man, not the ball...!

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