GOT Discussion Including *spoilers* to end of current episode! Be Warned!

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533 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2236477 14-May-2019 09:53

networkn:

trig42:

From being almost impotent for the first eight seasons, the Dragon turned into a superweapon.

FTFY

She can wipe out the naval fleet last night, but couldn't a week before with 2 of the freaking dragons! Insane.

Tbf Jon says Rhaegal still needed to heal thats why he didn't ride him. Thats why they specifically went for Rhaegal.

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GV27

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#2236483 14-May-2019 10:00

gehenna:
GV27:

Just finished this. Did anyone else get a real Anakin Skywalker prequel vibe from this?

Yup I even said out loud "it's over anakin, I have the high ground" lol

No one:

Dany after 5 seconds: "OH NO, I AM NOW THE BAD GUY"

It just reminded me of Skywalker suddenly deciding he was evil in the Star Wars prequels in 'blink and you'll miss it' kind of way.

I feel like there were lots of potential endings here, and of all of them, this was the most foreseeable. It was pretty un-GOT and leaves a lot of unresolved plot points;

What was the whole point of the Night King and the Children of the Forest.
What about Bran?
So Arya is now just to walking into places to kill people, instead of face-swapping?
Dany's 2nd dragon just died - there was no come-back.
Euron Greyjoy has to be the least consequential character yet (assuming he is actually dead).
What happened to the Iron Islands?
All of the Lord of Light prophecies etc are unresolved.

It's just so unsatisfying.

networkn

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#2236507 14-May-2019 10:52

Danys has made so many poor decisions. Taking a weakened army to the Red Keep, instead of leaving them to heal. Flying Dragons who hadn't fully recovered, probably cost her 1 Dragon, so many others.

She isn't the one for the Iron Throne, but as is so often true in History, the most ruthless usually rule, rather than the best suited.

Handsomedan

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#2236534 14-May-2019 11:38

networkn:

Danys has made so many poor decisions. Taking a weakened army to the Red Keep, instead of leaving them to heal. Flying Dragons who hadn't fully recovered, probably cost her 1 Dragon, so many others.

She isn't the one for the Iron Throne, but as is so often true in History, the most ruthless usually rule, rather than the best suited.

and that's why I think it'll turn out to be Jon in the end...he'll find his ruthless side and have Dany executed at the hands of his little sister after he's already killed Greyworm by his own hand.

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QuackPipe

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#2236699 14-May-2019 14:09

The true heir to the throne seems to be not as clear cut as it seems.

By lineage Jon is ahead of Dany for a Targaryen to make a claim

Gendry is illegitimate and afaik there is no other living Baratheon

Tyrion has no claim as Cersei ruled under House Baratheon.

A Stark claim would be way in the left field if claiming Ned as the last rightful ruler after Robert when he was made protector of the realm until Joffrey came of age and then claiming all of Cersei’s kids were illegitimate so the rightful heir would be Bran who has no interest so moving to Sansa.

Or does it become right of conquest where Dany has just done that and added to that is her bloodline.

By right of conquest does Jon have a leg to stand on?

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#2236703 14-May-2019 14:16

Interesting note put on Reddit re Varys...something I didn't pick up on.

He wasn't executed simply for writing letters and scheming behind Dany's back...he was employing the little girl to poison the Queen, hence the conversation about risk vs reward and the fact that she was being watched by the guards and she needed to get back to the kitchen.

I thought she was delivering letters/notes...but no. She was delivering poisoned food.

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GV27

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#2236714 14-May-2019 14:35

QuackPipe: The true heir to the throne seems to be not as clear cut as it seems.

By lineage Jon is ahead of Dany for a Targaryen to make a claim

Gendry is illegitimate and afaik there is no other living Baratheon

Tyrion has no claim as Cersei ruled under House Baratheon.

A Stark claim would be way in the left field if claiming Ned as the last rightful ruler after Robert when he was made protector of the realm until Joffrey came of age and then claiming all of Cersei’s kids were illegitimate so the rightful heir would be Bran who has no interest so moving to Sansa.

Or does it become right of conquest where Dany has just done that and added to that is her bloodline.

By right of conquest does Jon have a leg to stand on?

Assuming Tyrion is not a Targaryen. I can see Dany trying to roast him for letting Jamie go once they find a gold hand in the ruins of the red keep.

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Handsomedan

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#2236724 14-May-2019 14:57

GV27:
QuackPipe: The true heir to the throne seems to be not as clear cut as it seems.

By lineage Jon is ahead of Dany for a Targaryen to make a claim

Gendry is illegitimate and afaik there is no other living Baratheon

Tyrion has no claim as Cersei ruled under House Baratheon.

A Stark claim would be way in the left field if claiming Ned as the last rightful ruler after Robert when he was made protector of the realm until Joffrey came of age and then claiming all of Cersei’s kids were illegitimate so the rightful heir would be Bran who has no interest so moving to Sansa.

Or does it become right of conquest where Dany has just done that and added to that is her bloodline.

By right of conquest does Jon have a leg to stand on?

Assuming Tyrion is not a Targaryen. I can see Dany trying to roast him for letting Jamie go once they find a gold hand in the ruins of the red keep.

He wasn't wearing it (the latest gaffe by the show - his real hand is clearly shown on a still where they are just about to be crushed by falling rocks...)

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Varkk

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#2236743 14-May-2019 15:53

Dany has always had bad impulses, it was just in the past she had been tempered by her advisors etc. In earlier seasons she wanted to burn one of the slaver cities top the ground, but was talked down by Tyrion and Jorah (?)

Now she has lost her advisors, either with them being dead, or feeling they betrayed or rejected her. She is on her own and not able to be talked down. I think a quote from an early episode "A Targaryan alone in the world is a terrible thing". She is on her own now.

Looking back her path was hinted at in the early days, perhaps the writers could have stretched it out over two seasons. One to deal with the Night King and the next to settle the war for the seven Kingdoms.

pctek

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#2236771 14-May-2019 16:48

http://bitsandpieces.us/2019/05/ya-think-3/

And Boo Tyrion, he was A)Your mate and B)Right

JayADee

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#2236831 14-May-2019 19:07

Handsomedan:

Interesting note put on Reddit re Varys...something I didn't pick up on.

He wasn't executed simply for writing letters and scheming behind Dany's back...he was employing the little girl to poison the Queen, hence the conversation about risk vs reward and the fact that she was being watched by the guards and she needed to get back to the kitchen.

I thought she was delivering letters/notes...but no. She was delivering poisoned food.

Oh NOW that conversation makes sense! I thought maybe Varys was just keeping an eye on the situation via the kitchen...

mudguard

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#2237009 14-May-2019 21:50

Did it say somewhere that he was poisoning her? Was I not paying enough attention?

gehenna

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#2237013 14-May-2019 22:00

Seems to be one of the read between the lines moments. i.e. the conversation immediately before or after, can't recall which, was Tyrion checking if she'd eaten and being told she hasn't eaten in days. I assumed at the time that was grief, but with the addition of the Varys little bird scene and the context of their conversation it does make sense that he's trying to poison her.

Lizard1977

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#2238163 15-May-2019 09:29

I think I said this before (for the previous episodes), but my main problem with GoT S8 is the lack of narrative cohesion. There is a really good article (and probably many of them) about the way that it has shifted from character-driven stories to plot-driven stories. Taken in this light, a lot of the problems can be explained. People do things (e.g. Dany descending in madness, burning down King's Landing, dragons ramping up and down their destructive abilities episode by episode, etc) solely to drive the plot forward, not from any internally-consistent character motivations. This is really disappointing, especially when compared to the way the characters acted in previous seasons.

There have been attempts to explain Dany's madness, pointing out moments during the previous episodes which showed the direction she was heading. That may be true, but as a narrative structure it's still very flimsy, especially compared to what's gone before it. About the only redeeming feature I can find in her sacking of King's Landing is the metaphor you can attribute to it. A lot of people had identified the larger message behind the "winter is coming"/white walker threat, i.e. climate change, and the battles over the Iron Throne representing the petty power plays we focus on instead of tackling the species-ending threat facing us. When they killed the Night King (relatively simply, setting aside the slaughter of thousands - a girl with a dagger does the deed), they also killed the deeper meaning of that whole plot line. However, with Dany sacking King's Landing they somewhat redeemed this. If the White Walkers are the "climate change", then King's Landing is the cypher for every government that fiddled while the planet burns. Dany represents the radical viewpoint that rather than trying to effect change within a system that inherently resists change, you have to burn that system down and start again. In this sense, she is fulfilling her promise to "break the wheel" from an earlier season. Destroying King's Landing represents her understanding that things cannot continue with a "better" ruler, we need to start all over again, and shows she has the will to do what is necessary. Leaving King's Landing intact simply invites the system to re-assert itself.

There are some problems with this, though. As my wife pointed out, the whole economy is shot to hell - who's going to farm the fields, forge the tools, etc, now that Dany killed all the commonfolk (at least, all those who were inside the walls). Effectively, she's set the whole country back several hundred years. Also, people tend to forget that Westeros is not the whole planet - there at least is Essos, and there may be a new conqueror from the East who would see such a devastation as an opportunity to seize power, in which things don't change at all. If Dany's plan is to "break the wheel", then she needs to guard the pieces (presumably with Drogon), to stop anyone trying to repair the wheel.

Sadly, I don't think this is what the writers planned - I think it's just one of many theories trying to make sense of a story that has been rushed and driven to an unwarranted conclusion. It's sad for me, because GoT - until recently - represented the pinnacle of TV storytelling (or at least, a prime example of the new golden era). It's disappointing to see it go out in a whimper (narratively - there's no shortage of action, but anyone can do action).

networkn

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#2239390 16-May-2019 18:07

I see someone got online at change.org and petitioned for "competent" writers to rewrite season 8.

As much as I have issues with S8, I'd rather be watching it than not. I don't really think it's a matter of competency, as being required to fit what really should be 12-14 episodes of content into 6 one hour episodes. What do you expect them to do in all reasonableness? I'd suggest the writers are frustrated that they have to make compromises too.

The frustration should be toward whomever thought they could reasonably close all open significant storylines which have been brewing for 7 seasons, into 6 hours. I am not sure if it's budget that dictates 6 episodes. I always find short seasons frustrating. Top Gear, Sherlock, and there have been others.

I suspect the final episode is going to send some overinvested types into a stroke and whilst I certainly don't fit into that category, and will likely have my share of frustration, will I be watching on Monday night? You better believe it!

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