IN or OUT? All on in the UK for the next 10 weeks.

Forums › Off topic › IN or OUT? All on in the UK for the next 10 weeks.

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#1575935 17-Jun-2016 17:26

ScuL:

You can't bring peace elsewhere if you can't find peace on your own turf. What the Brexit is doing right now is dividing a nation, and not just a nation, it is triggering fascism in Britain and the rest of the continent. In fact the events of the last few weeks are tossing us back in history whereas we should be looking at finding ways to progress and move forward.

Sorry but I'm calling BS on that. In what way is the Brexit debate "triggering fascism"? Do you mean the nutter who shot the MP? Or is it just that anyone who expresses disquiet about the yielding of sovereignty and control over a nation's borders is now a "fascist"?

One thing I have found interesting about this debate is the style of arguments used. The exiters tend to highlight areas where they think the EU is bad - waste, uncontrolled immigration, bureaucracy, the desire for ever-closer federalism. The remainers seem to be focused on the short-term economic impact, and beyond that just resort to name-calling and scaremongering (eg "you're just like Trump" "we'll have that racist Farage as PM" "this will start WW3".

The other interesting comparison is with the TPPA, which from what I can see yields about 0.1% of the amount of national sovereignty as that required by the EU, and triggered significant unrest here.

Personally I registered to vote then decided that as I have no intention of living in UK again, I'd leave it to the residents.

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#1575942 17-Jun-2016 17:45

My mother voted today - Out.

So far, 100% of the people I know who have voted have voted out.

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#1575945 17-Jun-2016 17:47

There was an interesting article in The Times (it's paywalled).

They addressed the concern that we may have to pay a 2.5% tariff to trade in the EU after an exit by pointing out that the current annual contribution spread over the current trade is the equivalent of a 7.5% tariff already...!

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#1575946 17-Jun-2016 17:48

malpasolan:

Well if Brexit wins then they better win by a convincing margin because Cameron is on record as saying he won't even consider leaving the EU if the winning margin is only a few percent.

I don't think he's stay in office long if he tried enforcing that.

malpasolan

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#1575950 17-Jun-2016 17:56

Geektastic:

malpasolan:

Well if Brexit wins then they better win by a convincing margin because Cameron is on record as saying he won't even consider leaving the EU if the winning margin is only a few percent.

I don't think he's stay in office long if he tried enforcing that.

Yes you're quite correct. It's not just about Britain leaving the EU, it's also a vote of confidence for the Tory government. I assume if it goes in favour of Brexit then at the very least Cameron will be forced to step down.

SJB

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#1575969 17-Jun-2016 18:31

From all the previous comments it seems to me that the posters on here who want out have lived in Britain and all those who think Britain should stay haven't or have lived somewhere else in Europe.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

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#1575978 17-Jun-2016 18:50

Nope. I've lived in Britain for many years. Staying in the EU is the right thing to do.

malpasolan

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#1575986 17-Jun-2016 19:17

SJB:

From all the previous comments it seems to me that the posters on here who want out have lived in Britain and all those who think Britain should stay haven't or have lived somewhere else in Europe.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

That is correct in my case

Born and bred true Englishman. Have Lived in a pre EU England and it was far better. Since joining the EU, the UK has lost it's identity - kinda like NZ becoming a part of Australia and losing it cultural identity.

DaveB

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#1575997 17-Jun-2016 19:54

malpasolan:

SJB:

From all the previous comments it seems to me that the posters on here who want out have lived in Britain and all those who think Britain should stay haven't or have lived somewhere else in Europe.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

That is correct in my case

Born and bred true Englishman. Have Lived in a pre EU England and it was far better. Since joining the EU, the UK has lost it's identity - kinda like NZ becoming a part of Australia and losing it cultural identity.

I also was born and bred there (Birmingham area) and came here in 1978 (or 79) for a 6 month holiday. Have been here ever since!!

Yes the UK has lost its identity and to me it appears more apparent every time I go back to see family every two years or so. But, comparing it to the potential loss of cultural identity if we were to become part of Australia, is I believe, a little soft because our cultures are quite similar in most respects.

The changes I have witnessed, especially in the past 15 years or so, are massive. In many areas the cultural changes and enforced political correctness are staggeringly scary. Worse still, I feel quite sorry for many of my white middle class family who just feel that they are being stripped of their identities without any say whatsoever.

Luckily, we've got it pretty good over here.

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#1576004 17-Jun-2016 20:16

DaveB:

malpasolan:

SJB:

From all the previous comments it seems to me that the posters on here who want out have lived in Britain and all those who think Britain should stay haven't or have lived somewhere else in Europe.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

That is correct in my case

Born and bred true Englishman. Have Lived in a pre EU England and it was far better. Since joining the EU, the UK has lost it's identity - kinda like NZ becoming a part of Australia and losing it cultural identity.

I also was born and bred there (Birmingham area) and came here in 1978 (or 79) for a 6 month holiday. Have been here ever since!!

Yes the UK has lost its identity and to me it appears more apparent every time I go back to see family every two years or so. But, comparing it to the potential loss of cultural identity if we were to become part of Australia, is I believe, a little soft because our cultures are quite similar in most respects.

The changes I have witnessed, especially in the past 15 years or so, are massive. In many areas the cultural changes and enforced political correctness are staggeringly scary. Worse still, I feel quite sorry for many of my white middle class family who just feel that they are being stripped of their identities without any say whatsoever.

Luckily, we've got it pretty good over here.

i hate the whole political correctness argument. There is no such thing, there are manners, respect, decency and equality. The PC rubbish is folks trying to justify behaving badly.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

malpasolan

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#1576017 17-Jun-2016 21:02

DaveB:

Yes the UK has lost its identity and to me it appears more apparent every time I go back to see family every two years or so. But, comparing it to the potential loss of cultural identity if we were to become part of Australia, is I believe, a little soft because our cultures are quite similar in most respects.

Maybe a little soft but there are still some key differences even so.

Politicians are in general to blame for the mess created in their own countries as they ultimately wield the power to make or break things. With Brexit we have politicians ignoring their constituents, who want out, but insist on toeing the party line and chanting the party "remain" cry. People have had enough and it's now cost a life of an MP - the guy that killed Jo Cox was probably off his trolley anyway but it highlight's the frustration felt by the public when they're ignored.

I read today that the Labour Party now think that only the "poorly educated" working class of Britain will vote to exit. No wonder Labour had a dismal showing at the recent election there, they're not even on the same planet as their target voters. There will be a lot of political fallout over this no matter which way the vote swings and all I can say is that Nigel Farage must be sitting there rubbing his hands in glee. This referendum might be the downfall of both David Cameron and Jeremy Corbyn - it will claim one of them at least.

I think any politician that doesn't learn anything from this torrid referendum will be doomed to failure.

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#1576050 17-Jun-2016 22:26

malpasolan: the guy that killed Jo Cox was probably off his trolley anyway but it highlight's the frustration felt by the public when they're ignored.

Witnesses say he was shouting something like "Britain First!".

I have to ask if someone in the UK has been deliberately stirring the nuts?

In the same was as Trump in the USA, in addition to normal politics saying all kinds of conspiracy type stuff?

Edit: genuine question to the UK residents/knowledgeable.

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#1576066 18-Jun-2016 00:14

SJB:

From all the previous comments it seems to me that the posters on here who want out have lived in Britain and all those who think Britain should stay haven't or have lived somewhere else in Europe.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Was born there and lived there 37 years.

I would never have voted to join and were I voting in this referendum I would be voting to leave. British people have precisely nothing in common with mainland Europeans other than the same number of arms and legs.

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#1576067 18-Jun-2016 00:18

malpasolan:

DaveB:

Yes the UK has lost its identity and to me it appears more apparent every time I go back to see family every two years or so. But, comparing it to the potential loss of cultural identity if we were to become part of Australia, is I believe, a little soft because our cultures are quite similar in most respects.

Maybe a little soft but there are still some key differences even so.

Politicians are in general to blame for the mess created in their own countries as they ultimately wield the power to make or break things. With Brexit we have politicians ignoring their constituents, who want out, but insist on toeing the party line and chanting the party "remain" cry. People have had enough and it's now cost a life of an MP - the guy that killed Jo Cox was probably off his trolley anyway but it highlight's the frustration felt by the public when they're ignored.

I read today that the Labour Party now think that only the "poorly educated" working class of Britain will vote to exit. No wonder Labour had a dismal showing at the recent election there, they're not even on the same planet as their target voters. There will be a lot of political fallout over this no matter which way the vote swings and all I can say is that Nigel Farage must be sitting there rubbing his hands in glee. This referendum might be the downfall of both David Cameron and Jeremy Corbyn - it will claim one of them at least.

I think any politician that doesn't learn anything from this torrid referendum will be doomed to failure.

A good friend of mine grew up in Rochdale (if you're not familiar, it's a place sane people escape from), son of working class parents. Now has a BA, an MA and a PhD. Voted to leave.

The UK Labour Party haven't a clue - look at the halfwit they elected as their leader.

malpasolan

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#1576090 18-Jun-2016 09:06

Geektastic:

A good friend of mine grew up in Rochdale (if you're not familiar, it's a place sane people escape from), son of working class parents. Now has a BA, an MA and a PhD. Voted to leave.

The UK Labour Party haven't a clue - look at the halfwit they elected as their leader.

Corbyn reminds me of a cross between Michael Foot and Neville Chamberlain. Pretty much useless and dithering like Foot appeared to be and, like Chamberlain (who did a wonderful impersonation of a prime minister), out to appease his aggressors that wanted to walk all over him and the country.

At least Michael Foot had some sort of likeable personality and kept the Labour Party together in those years that it could have fallen apart and faded into history.

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