IN or OUT? All on in the UK for the next 10 weeks.

Forums › Off topic › IN or OUT? All on in the UK for the next 10 weeks.

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Fred99

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#1576098 18-Jun-2016 09:34

Geektastic:

British people have precisely nothing in common with mainland Europeans other than the same number of arms and legs.

That kind of comment may go unchallenged at "stormfront.org" as it fits their agenda perfectly, but it's not going unchallenged here.

What a load of absolute bollocks.

shk292

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#1576101 18-Jun-2016 09:49

Fred99:

Geektastic:

British people have precisely nothing in common with mainland Europeans other than the same number of arms and legs.

That kind of comment may go unchallenged at "stormfront.org" as it fits their agenda perfectly, but it's not going unchallenged here.

What a load of absolute bollocks.

Thank you Fred for illustrating my point. Geektastic made a semi-humorous remark about Europe and is an obvious leave proponent. We then have a "remainer" swoop in and equate him to a white supremacist fascist.

gzt

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#1576104 18-Jun-2016 10:02

gzt:
malpasolan: the guy that killed Jo Cox was probably off his trolley anyway but it highlight's the frustration felt by the public when they're ignored.

Witnesses say he was shouting something like "Britain First!".

I have to ask if someone in the UK has been deliberately stirring the nuts?

In the same was as Trump in the USA, in addition to normal politics saying all kinds of conspiracy type stuff?

Edit: genuine question to the UK residents/knowledgeable.

News answers my questions this morning;

It appears the gardener guy has far right associations.

In addition there is actually a fringe group called Britain First who have 1.4 million likes on Facebook, more than any UK political party lol. Lots of anti Muslim type articles are getting 'like' apparently.

So it looks like this guy is like the Isis guys that absorb a lot of crazy stuff and then do crazy stuff.

Fred99

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#1576105 18-Jun-2016 10:07

shk292:

Fred99:

Geektastic:

British people have precisely nothing in common with mainland Europeans other than the same number of arms and legs.

That kind of comment may go unchallenged at "stormfront.org" as it fits their agenda perfectly, but it's not going unchallenged here.

What a load of absolute bollocks.

Thank you Fred for illustrating my point. Geektastic made a semi-humorous remark about Europe and is an obvious leave proponent. We then have a "remainer" swoop in and equate him to a white supremacist fascist.

I don't agree with your condescending comment about "illustrating a point" - so bollocks to you too for your attempt to be clever.

I addressed the comment at face value, there was nothing remotely or "semi"-humorous about it, I am neither are "remainer" nor "brexiter".

If you don't want to be labelled a white supremacist fascist (which is not what I've done there BTW), then don't repeat white supremacist fascist slogans. It's that simple.

wombus

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#1576110 18-Jun-2016 10:16

I'm English born and bread left to come to NZ when I was 25 that was back in 1992. I've been back and seen the changes, and it is scary the rate at which the population is growing. I've been watching a few political debates on ITV and BBC, someone quoted the net population is expected to grow something like another 4 million in the next 10 years, that's the population of NZ in a landmass smaller than here. Not all imigration it's from within the EU admittedly but a large percentage is.

For me I am so glad I was able to escape this mayhem of population especially as I was brought up in London where the biggest growth has taken place. Even driving to Auckland these days brings me out in a rash.

I'm for leaving and every friend and relative I know says they are giving to leave.

malpasolan

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#1576118 18-Jun-2016 10:34

Fred99:

If you don't want to be labelled a white supremacist fascist (which is not what I've done there BTW), then don't repeat white supremacist fascist slogans. It's that simple.

It's a shame when you stand up and try to defend your own countries pride and history only to be shouted down by cries of "racist". Sadly this happens in the UK with this debate and referendum but it's not exclusive to the UK, it's an easy ploy to shutdown someones opinion by those of an alternate persuasion that cry "racist" and in turn showing themselves up as totalitarian in their approach too.

Fred99

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#1576160 18-Jun-2016 11:31

malpasolan:

Fred99:

If you don't want to be labelled a white supremacist fascist (which is not what I've done there BTW), then don't repeat white supremacist fascist slogans. It's that simple.

It's a shame when you stand up and try to defend your own countries pride and history only to be shouted down by cries of "racist". Sadly this happens in the UK with this debate and referendum but it's not exclusive to the UK, it's an easy ploy to shutdown someones opinion by those of an alternate persuasion that cry "racist" and in turn showing themselves up as totalitarian in their approach too.

No. It's a shame when racist cries are used by those who stand up and try to defend their beliefs in what their country's "pride and history" means.

How dare you create a strawman argument by implying that I'm trying to shut down discussion in a totalitarian manner.

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shk292

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#1576168 18-Jun-2016 12:04

malpasolan:

Fred99:

If you don't want to be labelled a white supremacist fascist (which is not what I've done there BTW), then don't repeat white supremacist fascist slogans. It's that simple.

It's a shame when you stand up and try to defend your own countries pride and history only to be shouted down by cries of "racist". Sadly this happens in the UK with this debate and referendum but it's not exclusive to the UK, it's an easy ploy to shutdown someones opinion by those of an alternate persuasion that cry "racist" and in turn showing themselves up as totalitarian in their approach too.

It happens a lot, doesn't it?

To clear up any doubt:

"Muslim" isn't a race
Wanting to retain control over a country's borders and migration policy isn't xenophobic or racist
Wanting to retain the democratic right of a country to set its own legislation isn't fascist
Likening a semi-humorous remark to the slogan of a far-right extremist organisation is a good example of a strawman being used to shut down a debate

malpasolan

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#1576171 18-Jun-2016 12:05

Fred99:

No. It's a shame when racist cries are used by those who stand up and try to defend their beliefs in what their country's "pride and history" means.

How dare you create a strawman argument by implying that I'm trying to shut down discussion in a totalitarian manner.

I'm not implying anything about you so don't feel so privileged.

I was referring in general to those camps which will shutdown free speech if it differs from their view of the world.

I'm for free speech, if I agree with it fine, if I'm butthurt by it so be it but I'm not going to stop people expressing themselves.

If this time next week the UK is still in Europe then that's what my fellow countrymen want. Sure, I'm gonna be a bit sad about it but I'm not going to cry about it.

Free speech, openness and transparency has been lacking in this whole referendum and that is what I find appalling and sad.

Fred99

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#1576190 18-Jun-2016 12:50

malpasolan:

Fred99:

No. It's a shame when racist cries are used by those who stand up and try to defend their beliefs in what their country's "pride and history" means.

How dare you create a strawman argument by implying that I'm trying to shut down discussion in a totalitarian manner.

I'm not implying anything about you so don't feel so privileged.

I was referring in general to those camps which will shutdown free speech if it differs from their view of the world.

I'm for free speech, if I agree with it fine, if I'm butthurt by it so be it but I'm not going to stop people expressing themselves.

If this time next week the UK is still in Europe then that's what my fellow countrymen want. Sure, I'm gonna be a bit sad about it but I'm not going to cry about it.

Free speech, openness and transparency has been lacking in this whole referendum and that is what I find appalling and sad.

What "camps"?

You most certainly have implied things about me. Totally wrong, disingenuous, ignorant.

malpasolan

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#1576201 18-Jun-2016 13:14

Fred99:

You most certainly have implied things about me. Totally wrong, disingenuous, ignorant.

Okay, if you say so... I will leave others to make their own minds up about what I said.

Fred99

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#1576205 18-Jun-2016 13:36

malpasolan:

Fred99:

You most certainly have implied things about me. Totally wrong, disingenuous, ignorant.

Okay, if you say so... I will leave others to make their own minds up about what I said.

Good-oh. I just gave you a +1, and I'd urge others to do the same, and you can continue to think that because others share your views, that makes those views right.

I'll just continue to believe that the Brexit debate has at certain levels been hijacked by racist bigots, that the right of "freedom of speech" is what's used by those groups to defend what they say - as opposed to their right to say it.

SJB

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#1576215 18-Jun-2016 14:26

IMO the immigration argument is not about where the people come from, it's about the sheer numbers of them.

Living in NZ you just can't appreciate how crowded Britain is. Yes there are some areas that are relatively sparsely populated such as the highlands of Scotland (where there is virtually no employment opportunities) but other areas such as London and the south east are just teeming with people.

When you get off the plane at Heathrow it's just like being dropped into the centre of an ant colony except it's people instead of ants. And then it's onto the M25, 6 lanes in each direction of nose to tail traffic.

I laugh when I hear Aucklanders complaining about a 45 minute or hour commute. Try commuting in London. The traffic moves slower now than it did when it was packed with horse drawn carriages in the 1860's.

And every single person living in the EU has the right to move to the UK if they so desire. That's 500 million. Obviously only a proportion of that number might want to move but what would you do if you were living in Greece for example (which is completely b******d for generations) without a job and no prospect of getting one.

The EU as a concept might be a great idea but it simply doesn't work when there is such economic inequality between the countries involved especially between the northern European countries and those in the south. And IMO those inequalities can never be overcome.

freitasm

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#1576222 18-Jun-2016 14:58

Someone has been banned for invoking Godwin's Law and this thread is now locked.

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