Pakeha Party launches for 'equal rights'

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#850985 8-Jul-2013 16:14

Klipspringer:
ajobbins:
StarBlazer:
ajobbins:
Klipspringer: I bet this is going to be labeled as racist.

Yes, because it is

More racist, less racist or equally racist in comparison to either the Mana or Maori party?

Two rascisms don't make a right.

But the Pakeha Party are only suggesting equal rights ..
Hows that racist?

Giving "equal rights" to the already privileged is not equity. The whole point of giving special assistance to those in under privileged groups is to promote equity. It's wrong to ignore your privilege in demanding "the same rights as minorities" and think that is fair.

Dratsab

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#851001 8-Jul-2013 16:22

Klipspringer: and its founder David Ruck claims there's no racism involved

Maybe not now, or maybe not the way Mr Ruck sees it. But you can bet your bottom dollar with the type of people it'll mostly appeal to, it'll spiral down that path before too long. I see shades of a British National Front Party (who essentially claim to be founded on democracy and freedom of speech) style party emerging. That said, we do live in a democracy so these people have a right to set their party up regardless of how some may feel about it.

NZtechfreak

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#851002 8-Jul-2013 16:22

Klipspringer: "If the Maori get it, we want it too."

Actually the official graphic I saw said "If the Maori get it, we want it to" - the single "o" in the official one gives an insight into the intellectual calibre of those involved.

Why on earth any Pakeha would want high rates of unemployment, smoking, ill health, poor housing, frequent exposure to varying shades of discrimination etc etc is quite beyond me.

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Dratsab

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#851006 8-Jul-2013 16:28

NZtechfreak:
Klipspringer: "If the Maori get it, we want it too."

Actually the official graphic I saw said "If the Maori get it, we want it to" - the single "o" in too in the official one gives an insight into the intellectual calibre of those involved.

Ha ha - well spotted. I wouldn't have even looked at their page if you hadn't mentioned it.

They want it to... what?

ajobbins

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#851021 8-Jul-2013 16:50

Any group that needs to specifically label themselves "not racist" in their key message, probably is in fact, quite racist.

I can imagine their Facebook page has comments like many others that promote this type of policy. "I don't hate [insert minority group here], I have heaps of [minority group] friends, BUT...."

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MikeB4

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#851022 8-Jul-2013 16:51

This is a pathetic country sometimes if mindless crap like this gets mileage.

jeffnz

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#851027 8-Jul-2013 16:58

KiwiNZ: This is a pathetic country sometimes if mindless crap like this gets mileage.

how does this type of coverage on facebook make us a pathetic country?

maybe we should start another thread on what we each think is mindless, I have some thoughts on that

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#851054 8-Jul-2013 17:25

ajobbins: Any group that needs to specifically label themselves "not racist" in their key message, probably is in fact, quite racist.

I can imagine their Facebook page has comments like many others that promote this type of policy. "I don't hate [insert minority group here], I have heaps of [minority group] friends, BUT...."

As in "I'm not racist, but..."

1080p

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#851055 8-Jul-2013 17:25

ubergeeknz:
Klipspringer:
ajobbins:
StarBlazer:
ajobbins:
Klipspringer: I bet this is going to be labeled as racist.

Yes, because it is

More racist, less racist or equally racist in comparison to either the Mana or Maori party?

Two rascisms don't make a right.

But the Pakeha Party are only suggesting equal rights ..
Hows that racist?

Giving "equal rights" to the already privileged is not equity. The whole point of giving special assistance to those in under privileged groups is to promote equity. It's wrong to ignore your privilege in demanding "the same rights as minorities" and think that is fair.

So 'white' people (define that succinctly, if you can) have 'privilege' over those who are not 'white'?

The mistake here is assuming racial boundaries define a level of privilege. If you wanted true equity then special consideration would be based on a metric of privilege alone and ignore arbitrary factors like race.

The entire notion of 'privilege' when constrained inside containers like race, gender, age, and so forth is pure nonsense and smacks of an ill-informed, pseudo-intellectual garbage.

MikeB4

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#851057 8-Jul-2013 17:31

1080p:
ubergeeknz:
Klipspringer:
ajobbins:
StarBlazer:
ajobbins:
Klipspringer: I bet this is going to be labeled as racist.

Yes, because it is

More racist, less racist or equally racist in comparison to either the Mana or Maori party?

Two rascisms don't make a right.

But the Pakeha Party are only suggesting equal rights ..
Hows that racist?

Giving "equal rights" to the already privileged is not equity. The whole point of giving special assistance to those in under privileged groups is to promote equity. It's wrong to ignore your privilege in demanding "the same rights as minorities" and think that is fair.

So 'white' people (define that succinctly, if you can) have 'privilege' over those who are not 'white'?

The mistake here is assuming racial boundaries define a level of privilege. If you wanted true equity then special consideration would be based on a metric of privilege alone and ignore arbitrary factors like race.

The entire notion of 'privilege' when constrained inside containers like race, gender, age, and so forth is pure nonsense and smacks of an ill-informed, pseudo-intellectual garbage.

so privilege is or has never been assigned to race ?????????

Ragnor

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#851059 8-Jul-2013 17:33

ubergeeknz:

Giving "equal rights" to the already privileged is not equity. The whole point of giving special assistance to those in under privileged groups is to promote equity. It's wrong to ignore your privilege in demanding "the same rights as minorities" and think that is fair.

What's your definition of privilege?

Personally I think any welfare should be need based, colour blind and not race based at all.

Also public funding for education, healthcare etc is better structured universally as a public good ie: everyone pays in, everyone benefits free public education, ACC etc. If they want something more/something else then they can pay for private.

Equality of opportunity not equality of outcome.

ajobbins

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#851076 8-Jul-2013 18:03

Ragnor: Equality of opportunity not equality of outcome.

The problem with that is that given 'equal opportunity', factors beyond the control of individuals will lead to unequal outcomes, which is not fair.

As a society, we need to recognise that equitable opportunity will lead to more equality of outcome - which is fairer and better for everyone.

The minority in our country (and most) control own and control the majority, and do so with their own personal biases.

In a highly general sense:

Are women disadvantaged simply because they are women? Yes
Are Maori disadvantaged simply because they are Maori? Yes
Are immigrants disadvantages simply because they are immigrants? Yes
Are disabled people disadvantaged simply because they are disabled? Yes
etc etc.

Creating equity on a citizen by citizen basis is unrealistic - therefore group based policy is the best way of achieving equity amount a disadvantaged group. Will there be exceptions amount groups who will get more benefit than needed/intended? Sure, but in the overall scheme of things, it's the most efficient way to achieving equity.

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Klipspringer

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#851092 8-Jul-2013 18:17

Klipspringer:
freitasm: He launched a Facebook page. Long way from registering a party.

With 4395 likes.

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freitasm

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#851094 8-Jul-2013 18:20

Facebook "Likes" and nothing... For me are the same. Seriously, some people click "Like" and won't even remember what they had for breakfast that day. And won't remember they "liked" something the next week.

ajobbins

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#851105 8-Jul-2013 18:26

The mere fact that there are far more than just Maori and Pakeha in New Zealand demonstrate that the line this 'party' is spinning about equality isn't genuine.

If they really wanted equality, they would be the "New Zealanders party", or the "Kiwis Party" and advocate for equality of all people in New Zealand - not just Pakeha.

Even if that were the case, equality is not enough.

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