Does NZ need better gun laws?

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#1119680 1-Sep-2014 15:37

Zeon: Guns serve many purpose. For some its their recreation, for others its part of their job.

Look at China where you can't even get a gun. Crazies ran around railway station with knives that killed more people than this guy did.

If you want to avoid tragedies then you need to identify the problem people. It's like terrorism - intelligence is much better than just building a bomb wall around every building.

Certainly they do have purposes, but that doesn't stop their access being heavily restricted so the crazies can't gain access to them. Someone with a knife is far easier to take down, then someone with a gun, so they are not likely to cause the same amount of death, and we do have police who can act when there is that sort of problem. I mean in NZ we haven't had massacres from knives on the same level as ones caused by guns. It is far more difficult for police to compete against someone with a gun, than it is with someone with a knife. Police have guns, so they can just shoot someone with a knife. But they can't do that so easily with a person who has a gun, without risking being shot themselves, which has happened in the past.
Although guns are used recreational, heavily restricting them and how they are used is still possible . There have been several recent cases of hunting accidents, with people being misidentified as an animals and being shot. So there appears to be a lack of education out there too.

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#1119681 1-Sep-2014 15:38

Death by Police suicide, if we are lucky.

Glassboy

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#1119682 1-Sep-2014 15:40

mattwnz: With what has happened today http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/10446709/Live-Police-hunt-gunman-in-Ashburton and all the similar tragedies in recent past , I am in the belief that NZ gun laws could do with a lot of updating. I am kind of sick about hearing these sorts of stories and how they keep happening. I believe NZ has one of the biggest gun ownership rates in the world, but it is relatively easy for people to get a license. I believe laser ownership is now even more restricted than gun ownership. What are other peoples thoughts?

The logical extension to your argument is that we should ban all kitchen knives and cars because more people are killed with them than anything else.

We could all then bicycle to our friendly local vegan restaurant for dinner. This would be a good thing because we wouldn't need cows and more which would reduce our green house emissions and improve our water quality. All the unemployed people could start driving tuk-tuks (Granny hates being given a lift on the handle bars) which would result in 0% unemployment.

Zeon

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#1119684 1-Sep-2014 15:42

mattwnz:
Zeon: Guns serve many purpose. For some its their recreation, for others its part of their job.

Look at China where you can't even get a gun. Crazies ran around railway station with knives that killed more people than this guy did.

If you want to avoid tragedies then you need to identify the problem people. It's like terrorism - intelligence is much better than just building a bomb wall around every building.

Certainly they do have purposes, but that doesn't stop their access being heavily restricted so the crazies can't gain access to them. Someone with a knife is far easier to take down, then someone with a gun, so they are not likely to cause the same amount of death, and we do have police who can act when there is that sort of problem. I mean in NZ we haven't had massacres from knives on the same level as ones caused by guns. It is far more difficult for police to compete against someone with a gun, than it is with someone with a knife. Police have guns, so they can just shoot someone with a knife. But they can't do that so easily with a person who has a gun, without risking being shot themselves, which has happened in the past.
Although guns are used recreational, heavily restricting them and how they are used is still possible . There have been several recent cases of hunting accidents, with people being misidentified as an animals and being shot. So there appears to be a lack of education out there too.

Dude the police and even then armed-police are not everywhere. When the crazy decides to strike they aren't there to shoot him straight away.

Agree there are some idiot hunters around. I don't see why toughening gun laws would do much, I think you mean more firearm safety training.

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mattwnz

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#1119686 1-Sep-2014 15:44

DravidDavid:

A few years ago I would have totally disagreed with conceal carrying a firearm, but times are changing...Some people are crazy, and I'd rather not be the one worse off in a deadly situation and would deal with whatever consequences this pussyfoot government could dish out any day.

What area of NZ do you live? I have never felt that sort of threat in the Wellington area, and it is a concern if society has changed that much, and what has caused it to change. The police are supposed to be our form of protection against other citizens. Even if someone has accessed your property illegally and is committing a burglary and you catch them in the act, it is illegal to shoot them. I don't know what you are supposed to do, except call the police to act. I wouldn't like to see NZ become like the US, where even dairy owners have a gun behind the counter, it would be a sad state.

DravidDavid

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#1119688 1-Sep-2014 15:47

mattwnz: But someone in an urban environment shouldn't really need a gun nor store it within an urban environment. For sporting use, they could be stored at the sporting facility. The problem is that there is 1 gun for every 4 people in NZ so there would probably be some pretty heavy lobbying against any changes.

An urban environment is exactly where I'd want one.

Let's say an attacker ambushed your home and held your family at gunpoint. Who would you rather had the firearm in this instance.

How about the petrol station? Casually looking for cheese crackers after filling up and an armed trio walk right on in brandishing a sawn off shotgun. One of them hits the cashier in the foot and looks as if he is going to take a pot shot at you across the room...If you had the choice, would you rather have a Glock 17 in your belt or a Snickers?

It's common sense, and it's stupid we arn't allowed to legally, even if we fly the straight and narrow and WORK HARD for the option.

mattwnz:
What area of NZ do you live? I have never felt that sort of threat in the Wellington area, and it is a concern if society has changed that much, and what has caused it to change. The police are supposed to be our form of protection against other citizens. Even if someone has accessed your property illegally and is committing a burglary and you catch them in the act, it is illegal to shoot them. I don't know what you are supposed to do, except call the police to act. I wouldn't like to see NZ become like the US, where even dairy owners have a gun behind the counter, it would be a sad state.

Massey, West Auckland. Within a 5KM radius of the last three shootings that occurred in the area within the past couple of months.

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#1119689 1-Sep-2014 15:51

DravidDavid:
mattwnz: But someone in an urban environment shouldn't really need a gun nor store it within an urban environment. For sporting use, they could be stored at the sporting facility. The problem is that there is 1 gun for every 4 people in NZ so there would probably be some pretty heavy lobbying against any changes.

An urban environment is exactly where I'd want one.

Let's say an attacker ambushed your home and held your family at gunpoint. Who would you rather had the firearm in this instance.

How about the petrol station? Casually looking for cheese crackers after filling up and an armed trio walk right on in brandishing a sawn off shotgun. One of them hits the cashier in the foot and looks as if he is going to take a pot shot at you across the room...If you had the choice, would you rather have a Glock 17 in your belt or a Snickers?

It's common sense, and it's stupid we arn't allowed to legally, even if we fly the straight and narrow and WORK HARD for the option.

That is just plain ludicrous thinking.

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mattwnz

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#1119690 1-Sep-2014 15:53

I think drug testing license holders on a regular basis also could be an idea.

DravidDavid

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#1119692 1-Sep-2014 15:55

KiwiNZ:
DravidDavid:
mattwnz: But someone in an urban environment shouldn't really need a gun nor store it within an urban environment. For sporting use, they could be stored at the sporting facility. The problem is that there is 1 gun for every 4 people in NZ so there would probably be some pretty heavy lobbying against any changes.

An urban environment is exactly where I'd want one.

Let's say an attacker ambushed your home and held your family at gunpoint. Who would you rather had the firearm in this instance.

How about the petrol station? Casually looking for cheese crackers after filling up and an armed trio walk right on in brandishing a sawn off shotgun. One of them hits the cashier in the foot and looks as if he is going to take a pot shot at you across the room...If you had the choice, would you rather have a Glock 17 in your belt or a Snickers?

It's common sense, and it's stupid we arn't allowed to legally, even if we fly the straight and narrow and WORK HARD for the option.

That is just plain ludicrous thinking.

Try telling that to anyone who has ever needed a firearm in any dangerous situation such as the one in the Work and Income office. Also, I didn't see you proposing any alternative to the situation...So I'm guessing you choose robbery and/or death in the above situation?

...Because the Police are 20 minutes too late, if you can dial them in the first place!

Inphinity

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#1119693 1-Sep-2014 15:55

We should just give out rocket launchers to everybody, so we can just make sure there's always a Goodie around to blow up the Baddie at the right time. Because yes, logics!

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#1119696 1-Sep-2014 15:59

DravidDavid:
KiwiNZ:
DravidDavid:
mattwnz: But someone in an urban environment shouldn't really need a gun nor store it within an urban environment. For sporting use, they could be stored at the sporting facility. The problem is that there is 1 gun for every 4 people in NZ so there would probably be some pretty heavy lobbying against any changes.

An urban environment is exactly where I'd want one.

Let's say an attacker ambushed your home and held your family at gunpoint. Who would you rather had the firearm in this instance.

How about the petrol station? Casually looking for cheese crackers after filling up and an armed trio walk right on in brandishing a sawn off shotgun. One of them hits the cashier in the foot and looks as if he is going to take a pot shot at you across the room...If you had the choice, would you rather have a Glock 17 in your belt or a Snickers?

It's common sense, and it's stupid we arn't allowed to legally, even if we fly the straight and narrow and WORK HARD for the option.

That is just plain ludicrous thinking.

Try telling that to anyone who has ever needed a firearm in any dangerous situation such as the one in the Work and Income office.

A firearm in those situations would not help as you would never hit the assailant. You would would more than likely be killed and probably by your own gun. Its not like it is on TV, accurately using a firearm in a high stress situation is very difficult even for those with a lot of training.

mattwnz

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#1119700 1-Sep-2014 16:02

DravidDavid:
KiwiNZ:
DravidDavid:
mattwnz: But someone in an urban environment shouldn't really need a gun nor store it within an urban environment. For sporting use, they could be stored at the sporting facility. The problem is that there is 1 gun for every 4 people in NZ so there would probably be some pretty heavy lobbying against any changes.

An urban environment is exactly where I'd want one.

Let's say an attacker ambushed your home and held your family at gunpoint. Who would you rather had the firearm in this instance.

How about the petrol station? Casually looking for cheese crackers after filling up and an armed trio walk right on in brandishing a sawn off shotgun. One of them hits the cashier in the foot and looks as if he is going to take a pot shot at you across the room...If you had the choice, would you rather have a Glock 17 in your belt or a Snickers?

It's common sense, and it's stupid we arn't allowed to legally, even if we fly the straight and narrow and WORK HARD for the option.

That is just plain ludicrous thinking.

Try telling that to anyone who has ever needed a firearm in any dangerous situation such as the one in the Work and Income office. Also, I didn't see you proposing any alternative to the situation...So I'm guessing you choose robbery and/or death in the above situation?

...Because the Police are 20 minutes too late, if you can dial them in the first place!

Maybe we need more police then, or different levels of police. The current policing system is probably out of date anyway, as society has changed a lot.

DravidDavid

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#1119701 1-Sep-2014 16:06

Inphinity: We should just give out rocket launchers to everybody, so we can just make sure there's always a Goodie around to blow up the Baddie at the right time. Because yes, logics!

So long as everyone with a rocket launcher has been drug tested on a quarterly basis, belong to a rocket launcher club for a minimum term with the appropriate endorsements from the appropriate license holders, family members and local police then I'd agree.

Because the one guy that didn't go through the red tape, is more likely to blow dunkin' donuts up over a declined credit card...A level headed person with a rocket launcher might be able to blow the offender up before he targets other small franchises.

I honestly wouldn't care how strict it is. They could make it so I could only conceal it in a certain part of Auckland for all I care. I don't leave my stomping ground very much. I do however want the ability to protect my house, family and other property with suitable force. A knife and bare hands aren't exactly suitable when the offender has a rifle.

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#1119702 1-Sep-2014 16:07

networkn: It's like the AntiSmacking Bill. Those who commit the most serious of crimes don't stop to think about the consequences before doing it, or don't care about the consequences so more laws restricting it won't work.

This coming from someone generally in favour of more gun laws.

The anti-child-beating law may not have had any effect on those who don't stop to think about the consequences before doing it, but at least those parents who take to their kids with riding crops no longer have a legal defence when caught.

Glassboy

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#1119705 1-Sep-2014 16:11

Inphinity: We should just give out rocket launchers to everybody, so we can just make sure there's always a Goodie around to blow up the Baddie at the right time. Because yes, logics!

I've checked the list, you're not allowed a rocket launcher. Seems you have an unpaid parking ticket.

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