SPOILERS - Starwars VII The Force Awakens

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424 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1453743 20-Dec-2015 06:44

ubergeeknz:
mrphil:

remember the trailer? there was this line "the force is strong in our family My father has it. I have it. My sister has it. You have that power, too" i'm guess he is talking about Rey? but funny thing they didnt have that line in the movie

He says that line to Leia in Episode VI :) .. a bit tricksie putting it into the trailer for VII

I did enjoy VII, saw it 3 times on release day. It was very true to the original however it did not elevate things from there. It was essentially Episode IV over again. That's not a bad thing, I can understand why JJ would have wanted to just get the basics right on this one. I just hope the next two episodes take it somewhere new :)

A few niggly things bothered me though...

Po Dameron just casually reappearing when we (reasonably!) assume he is dead, and essentially hand-waving the matter, if I heard it correctly, by saying he was "flung clear of the wreckage and woke up at night". I found that pretty jarring. It makes no sense to me. If he was flung clear why wasn't his jacket? Aside from which the area should have been crawling with stormtroopers by then and would see him recaptured; if he managed his way around that, he still had to get off the planet amongst all the intense heat; and somehow get where he was going, and in battle ready condition, in much the same period of time as Fin and Rey who we know were in the Falcon and didn't spend much time stopped...

Mos ... the character design and the CGI was completely out of step with the film's aesthetic.

I thought TIE fighters did not have sealed cockpits (they certainly don't have life support) so how did Po and Fin manage to fly into space without suffocating...

you are totally spot on, he says a similar line to Leia in VI, "the force is strong in my family, my father has it, i have it and my sister has it"

the jacket bugged me too, how could he be thrown from it!

Dingbatt

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#1453780 20-Dec-2015 09:38

I have decided episode VII is a reboot. Pretty much a do over of episode IV to introduce a new generation of heroes and villains to a new generation of fans, while reconnecting with the legion of existing fans.

It is best to suspend belief and just enjoy the action. Otherwise you have to wonder how the sound carries during space battles.

It is after all, a long time ago in a galaxy far far away. Maybe the laws of physics and practicality don't apply, only the laws of Hollywood blockbusters and a ripping good yarn.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

aimsy007

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Master Geek

#1453781 20-Dec-2015 09:39

Is Finn, Lando Calrissian's son? Just putting it out there.

spronkey

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#1453872 20-Dec-2015 12:40

I was kinda disappointed. I didn't really think it was particularly good - I'd rate it 7/10, which is about where I rate Attack of the Clones and the Phantom Menace. While it wasn't nearly as absurd as e.g. Jar Jar, it loses points in other ways, by suffering from the same crap that a lot of modern movies do - too much action, pace never slows down, story elements are never really given the film time they need. Come on modern directors, just slow the hell down!

I wouldn't be surprised if in a year's time people think of VII in a less favourable light. IMO it wasn't nearly as good as any of the original trilogy, and probably sits just above episodes I and II. Although, the Anakin, Obi-Wan & Yoda vs Dooku scenes were easily better than anything in VII. Yeah it was crazy, but the battle between the younger Jedi and Dooku was a great lightsaber battle in its own right, and then old-man Yoda comes along and shows the audience *for the first time* what a really powerful Jedi can do. Phwoar.

Some of my objections (some mentioned by others above):

Stormtroopers that aren't clones. No explanation of that backstory.
Crappy colloquialisms makes Lucas' corny stuff look pro. "We've got company", "...Yeah it does!"
Scavenger girl that can understand "one of a kind" BB-8's droid bleeps. Eh?
Almost zero story used to establish the state of the universe. Lucas understood that part of the Star Wars saga is the politics. Who is the guy that gives out food in Jakku? What is the republic? Are we back to democracy? Who are all those guys that get blown up?
That super corny get a room scene between Rey and Fin on the MFalcon after they somehow manage to evade and destroy the Tie fighters. In fact, the akward forced sexual tension between those two over the whole film really.
Ridiculous Daenerys-style mind...k flashbacks when she touches a light sabre. Come on guys, whatever happened to the classy established technique of just using the voice of a dead Jedi?
The "First Order". Come on. Just call them the Empire. Or the remnants of the Empire. The Resistance? JUST CALL IT THE REBEL ALLIANCE AND BE DONE WITH IT DAMNIT!
Fin, who has never used a lightsaber before, is better at doing so than Darth Vader in the original trilogy. Hrm
Han hasn't used Chewie's crossbow at all in the .. however many decades they had been fighting together? Mmkay. Another story element added for some forced one-liners.
The constant belittling of Kylo Ren's strength. Oh man, this really grated me. He starts off Vader-like - this badarse villain, amazingly force powerful (holding the blaster fire, wwaow!), vocoded Goa'uld voice, questioned by few. But then over the course of the movie he:
- gets told by the admiral dude
- gets told by Emporer Palpa.. err, Empor.. err, Supreme? Master? Leader? Snoke
- talks waaaay too much to compensate for his lack of authority
- gets his arse handed to him in force-mind-probe ability by Rey despite seemingly being very strong with the force
- runs tail between legs to Snoke in full view of the admiral dude after he fails in above task
- needs to pray to Darth Vader's mutated mask because he can't muster the strength to stay bad
- cries over killing Han. OK, this one I'll allow, but in the context...
- gets shot by a single crossbow blast, despite fiercely displaying his prowess at deflecting an order of magnitude more fire earlier in the movie
- can't win a lightsaber fight against Rey, who again has never used a lightsaber before
At the end of the movie I find myself wondering why Kylo Ren has even been given so much story time. How did he even get into the position he is, with his own sinister looking little shuttle, if he's such a wimp?! Vader's authority was absolutely believable. Ren's really wasn't.
What the hell R2D2. You're just sitting there.
Death Star I: Years of espionage with a big toll to find the stolen plans. Analysed to find a weakness. Makes sense at a stretch. Death Star II: Incomplete, so they still had a chance. Best engineers on the task of figuring out how to blow it up. Makes sense at a stretch. Starkiller? Oh, Fin the sanitation stormtrooper knows just where to hit it! Sigh.
Wait? Wasn't Poe dead!?
Just when she's about to be forced off a cliff off the typical eroding-landscape, music slows down. "AHA! The Force!". Suddenly becomes expert lightsaberer. Oh FFS.
- As a side note, I thought this was where they should have brought in Skywalker. He could have forseen this moment, and planned to arrive in time to save Rey, all while a) giving us a decent lightsaber battle, b) showing Rey how awesome a Jedi can be, c) showing US how awesome Luke Skywalker has become
What the hell R2D2? You suddenly wake up!?
THATS IT I'M OVER THIS!

What was awesome? C-3PO. What a superb character. Han Solo. What a superb character. Luke Skywalker. What a superb character. Chewbacca. What a superb character.

I suppose some of the flying zappy zap scenes were pretty cool too. And, while I preferred the black and white aesthetic of the Empire, the red, white, and charcoal aesthetic of the first order was quite well done too.

Dingbatt

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#1453913 20-Dec-2015 14:17

Interestingly I had discussed a few of the above points with my teenage son.

The original Clone Troopers were renamed Stormtroopers but by the end of the Galactic Civil War a been mainly supplanted by 'birth born' recruits (ref Wookieepedia).

Since Rin's first use of a lightsaber was against a Stormtrooper with some sort of lance you have to assume that the First Order troops have had some training in the use of staff style weapons. Therefore if the lightsaber has a clearly marked 'ON' button he may have been able to figure out some way of employing it. Similarly, Rey carried a staff, which she employed early in the movie. I had always thought only possessors of the force were able to wield a lightsaber but apparently not. Was General Grievous a Force User?

Kylo Ren has to have flaws/doubts, otherwise how is he supposed to be turned back to the good side in the next couple of movies?

Listen to the dialogue in the original trilogy, there's some pretty corny stuff in there.

R2D2, a droid from at least two generations previous was able to control the systems on a state of the art deathstar. What is difficultly in believing that some folk may be able to understand what may be a universal droid language by a generation later.

As I have said before, the target audience is 10-15 yo boys, just as the originals were, hence the frenetic pace. Abrams could have done a 'Peter Jackson' on it and produced an epically long movie with detail provided to satisfy the most ardent fan but would probably lose his target audience, who start squirming in their seats if there is no action for 10 minutes. In the end I enjoyed the movie for the same reasons I enjoyed the originals as a boy.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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#1453916 20-Dec-2015 14:19

Some of my objections (some mentioned by others above): Stormtroopers that aren't clones. No explanation of that backstory.

Stormtroopers were never clones even in the original. The clonetroopers are clones and were replaced by regular draftees after the clone wars. In ANH Luke wants to join the imperial academy like his friends, presumerably to serve the Empire.

At least they explained that the modern stormtrooper are children who have been brainwashed since an early age.

Almost zero story used to establish the state of the universe. Lucas understood that part of the Star Wars saga is the politics

Lucas put too much politics and intrigue in the prequels - much didn't really make much sense although the theory that Jar Jar is the overall evil mastermind makes sense.

Remember, like LOTR, Hunger Games, Twilight, Mazerunner etc... this is not a standalone movie. They can flesh out things in the sequel or in TV series or comics/novels (look at the Marvel Cinematic Universe)

Who is the guy that gives out food in Jakku?

Simon Pegg

Just when she's about to be forced off a cliff off the typical eroding-landscape, music slows down. "AHA! The Force!". Suddenly becomes expert lightsaberer. Oh FFS.

She already demonstrated her proficiency with a staff when they tried to steal BB8. Suppose there's not that much difference between using a staff and a light saber?

As for you other points - fair enough but maybe nitpicking a little, most movies have plot holes.

Personally I thought Harrison Ford looked old in it but they got the casting right (never did warm up to any of the prequel stars except for Mace Windu). I like the new leads (Finn, Rey, Poe, even BB8). The bad guys not so much.

I also thought the x wing /tie fighter battles were too fast - slow it down!

Geektastic

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#1453956 20-Dec-2015 15:50

Dingbatt: Interestingly I had discussed a few of the above points with my teenage son.

The original Clone Troopers were renamed Stormtroopers but by the end of the Galactic Civil War a been mainly supplanted by 'birth born' recruits (ref Wookieepedia).

Since Rin's first use of a lightsaber was against a Stormtrooper with some sort of lance you have to assume that the First Order troops have had some training in the use of staff style weapons. Therefore if the lightsaber has a clearly marked 'ON' button he may have been able to figure out some way of employing it. Similarly, Rey carried a staff, which she employed early in the movie. I had always thought only possessors of the force were able to wield a lightsaber but apparently not. Was General Grievous a Force User?

Kylo Ren has to have flaws/doubts, otherwise how is he supposed to be turned back to the good side in the next couple of movies?

Listen to the dialogue in the original trilogy, there's some pretty corny stuff in there.

R2D2, a droid from at least two generations previous was able to control the systems on a state of the art deathstar. What is difficultly in believing that some folk may be able to understand what may be a universal droid language by a generation later.

As I have said before, the target audience is 10-15 yo boys, just as the originals were, hence the frenetic pace. Abrams could have done a 'Peter Jackson' on it and produced an epically long movie with detail provided to satisfy the most ardent fan but would probably lose his target audience, who start squirming in their seats if there is no action for 10 minutes. In the end I enjoyed the movie for the same reasons I enjoyed the originals as a boy.

Presumably the same audience was Lucas' intended audience and he did not feel the need to move at a pace that precluded story development and so on....

Also why can't bad guys just be, you know - bad? Why is there a need for them to be 'turned'?

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Zippity

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Ultimate Geek

#1453965 20-Dec-2015 16:40

Wouldn't waste my $$$ or time going to see this movie.

SF is such a load of codswallop - just like religion.

freitasm

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#1453992 20-Dec-2015 20:01

logo: Remember, like LOTR, Hunger Games, Twilight, Mazerunner etc... this is not a standalone movie. They can flesh out things in the sequel or in TV series or comics/novels (look at the Marvel Cinematic Universe)

*sigh* Which takes too much effort to keep abreast of so I don't give a damn. Star Wars should be all in the movies. Anything external should be non-canon and additional "fun".

Geektastic

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#1454064 20-Dec-2015 21:51

freitasm:
logo: Remember, like LOTR, Hunger Games, Twilight, Mazerunner etc... this is not a standalone movie. They can flesh out things in the sequel or in TV series or comics/novels (look at the Marvel Cinematic Universe)

*sigh* Which takes too much effort to keep abreast of so I don't give a damn. Star Wars should be all in the movies. Anything external should be non-canon and additional "fun".

Like that Sphero BB8 app controlled droid...fun! So trying not to buy one of those at the age of almost 50!

Geektastic

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#1454691 21-Dec-2015 17:45

On reflection I've downgraded my review score to 4/10 "Poor effort".

Fred99

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#1454734 21-Dec-2015 19:18

http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/film/75347933/why-ill-never-watch-any-of-the-star-wars-movies

"Star Wars has created an obsessive subculture of socially and hygienically bereft fantasists who subsist on Dominos and Mountain Dew, devote hours in forums arguing about whether Stormtroopers or Sandpeople killed Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru, and leave their parents' house once a year to attend Comic Con."

Geektastic

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#1454847 21-Dec-2015 22:38

Fred99:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/film/75347933/why-ill-never-watch-any-of-the-star-wars-movies

"Star Wars has created an obsessive subculture of socially and hygienically bereft fantasists who subsist on Dominos and Mountain Dew, devote hours in forums arguing about whether Stormtroopers or Sandpeople killed Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru, and leave their parents' house once a year to attend Comic Con."

Probably true.

networkn

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#1454851 21-Dec-2015 22:46

Geektastic: Saw it this afternoon.

I'm going to have to say that it was a disappointment. I was hoping for a new story not a fairly average remake of the original.

So many silly things: people who have never seen lightsabres before blazingly proficient with them in combat first go....people running all the time, everywhere.....and so on.

There were a few fun parts but overall it was actually worse story telling than any of the original 3 which I thought was disappointing. The final scenes were also in a location I know - an island off SW Ireland called Skellig Michael - which somewhat ruined the fantasy!

Considering how strong Kylo Ren was in the movie with the force, I couldn't really understand why he didn't just stick his sword out in front of him and pick his opponent up and impale the opponent on it, or pin them to a tree and stick the sword though their neck!

kiwifidget

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#1454884 21-Dec-2015 23:14

Saw it this afternoon. It felt more like a reboot than a sequel to me.
I enjoyed it all the same though.

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