Occupy Together!!

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#533990 16-Oct-2011 17:04

dontpanic42: Is anyone attending any Occupy events around New Zealand, or planning to attend?

http://www.livestream.com/globalrevolution

I've been watching the above livestream from the NYC Wall St event for the last couple of days (not constantly).
Some very inspiring stuff going on around the world.

The revolution is upon us.

We are the 99%.
We will not be ignored.

http://www.occupytogether.org/

I was going to go down to Aotea Square today, but events overtook me and I ran out of time.

Pathetic....but I should have no problems during the evening in the week or next weekend.

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dontpanic42

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#533993 16-Oct-2011 17:09

http://westandwiththe99percent.tumblr.com/

Linuxluver

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#533995 16-Oct-2011 17:14

codyc1515: Go occupy a job.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/jobs

Don't flaunt your ignorance.

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Linuxluver

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#533996 16-Oct-2011 17:16

codyc1515:
jofizz: Is anyone able to explain, in a few succinct sentences, what the Occupy movement stands for?

Thanks,
Joseph

Inciting violence in order to overthrow governments.

You're flaunting your ignorance again. It makes you look not so smart...and proud of it.

Bad combo.

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Linuxluver

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#533998 16-Oct-2011 17:18

muppet: [Edit: This isn't directed at an individual - this is directed at the movement as a whole]

Sorry, but you will be ignored, especially in the current state with no clear goals, no clear leader and, sorry to say it, no real clue.

There's not much that annoys me more than people that'll go on and on about a problem, but don't want to offer even an attempt at what the solution might be.

So go and sit in front of a building, throw pies at some guy that has the same education as you but made a few better life choices, got a few more lucky breaks etc. If it makes you feel great then all well and good.

My life sure as hell isn't perfect either, but I'm not going to start blaming everyone else for my problems and choices in life.

Muppet: The lack of clarity meme is one being put around as a talking point by the people who want to ignore this movement.

Don't fall for it. You appear to be listening to the wrong people.

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sbiddle

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#534000 16-Oct-2011 17:20

The problem with many of the photos of letters is that there already plenty being exposed as photoshop fakes.

dontpanic42

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#534011 16-Oct-2011 17:32

sbiddle: The problem with many of the photos of letters is that there already plenty being exposed as photoshop fakes.

That was one of my concerns too.

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BurningBeard

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#534021 16-Oct-2011 17:47

sbiddle: The problem with many of the photos of letters is that there already plenty being exposed as photoshop fakes.

The most notorious being the Photoshopped google map with a faux-crowd filling up the streets.

Whether or not the movement has merit or not, passing around forgeries doesn't help keep my credibility meter out of the red.

I'm still at a loss as to what the specific demands are, or whether it's a bunch of people just "sticking it to the man." The signs at the ChCh protest were so wide-ranging an vague it just looked like a convention for home-made sign makers.

Wouldn't the best way to stick it to the 1% be to just not buy their stuff?

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oxnsox

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#534024 16-Oct-2011 17:56

Personally I think the movement is symptomatic of general anxiety within societies that are beginning to wonder about bigger global issues.
Once upon a time people worried about things like peak-oil, and global warming, but from there they've shifted their focus to say 'Hey maybe the whole global economic model we're running now is wrong.'

And when they look harder they can rationalise their argument on the basis that 'Global growth is not sustainable' simply because resources are not infinite. At a base level they want something to change but like most of us can't put their finger on any definitive issue.

They're people who're ahead of the game, but how far... a year, a decade, an election cycle...or several.
They're not a political movement or organisation, they're simply a group of people who know that politics and politicians make the rules and changes that are driven thru the populous.

A few years back we swallowed the hard pill of Wall Streets philanthropy. The whole world got to take a piece of pill which for most of us was not of our making. Now Europe is desperately trying to not go down the plughole with the turbid bathwater they've been soaping in since. You don't really have to be any sort of scientist to see that whatever levers or knobs the global finance communities adjust or twiddle they're running out of smoke and mirrors.

The problem is that we all tend to need a bit of money, real or imagined, as it helps feed the cat and power the tele... Globally it's far easier for us to turn up the volume (and drown out the noise of the neighbours ride-on), and pretend that the financiers really are all very clever. She'll-be-right makes the sausages taste better on the barbie, and burning the crap out of them means you don't really notice what they're made or have to worry that they might actually be a bit off.

The Occupy-Together people aren't really any different from the most of us, except they're suspicious of the barbie. And when you can't trust the BBQ there's got to be something more fundamental wrong.....

dontpanic42

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#534027 16-Oct-2011 18:00

oxnsox: Personally I think the movement is symptomatic of general anxiety within societies that are beginning to wonder about bigger global issues.
Once upon a time people worried about things like peak-oil, and global warming, but from there they've shifted their focus to say 'Hey maybe the whole global economic model we're running now is wrong.'

And when they look harder they can rationalise their argument on the basis that 'Global growth is not sustainable' simply because resources are not infinite. At a base level they want something to change but like most of us can't put their finger on any definitive issue.

They're people who're ahead of the game, but how far... a year, a decade, an election cycle...or several.
They're not a political movement or organisation, they're simply a group of people who know that politics and politicians make the rules and changes that are driven thru the populous.

A few years back we swallowed the hard pill of Wall Streets philanthropy. The whole world got to take a piece of pill which for most of us was not of our making. Now Europe is desperately trying to not go down the plughole with the turbid bathwater they've been soaping in since. You don't really have to be any sort of scientist to see that whatever levers or knobs the global finance communities adjust or twiddle they're running out of smoke and mirrors.

The problem is that we all tend to need a bit of money, real or imagined, as it helps feed the cat and power the tele... Globally it's far easier for us to turn up the volume (and drown out the noise of the neighbours ride-on), and pretend that the financiers really are all very clever. She'll-be-right makes the sausages taste better on the barbie, and burning the crap out of them means you don't really notice what they're made or have to worry that they might actually be a bit off.

The Occupy-Together people aren't really any different from the most of us, except they're suspicious of the barbie. And when you can't trust the BBQ there's got to be something more fundamental wrong.....

QFT.

Very well said.

Linuxluver

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#534044 16-Oct-2011 18:43

oxnsox: Personally I think the movement is symptomatic of general anxiety within societies that are beginning to wonder about bigger global issues.
Once upon a time people worried about things like peak-oil, and global warming, but from there they've shifted their focus to say 'Hey maybe the whole global economic model we're running now is wrong.'

And when they look harder they can rationalise their argument on the basis that 'Global growth is not sustainable' simply because resources are not infinite. At a base level they want something to change but like most of us can't put their finger on any definitive issue.

They're people who're ahead of the game, but how far... a year, a decade, an election cycle...or several.
They're not a political movement or organisation, they're simply a group of people who know that politics and politicians make the rules and changes that are driven thru the populous.

A few years back we swallowed the hard pill of Wall Streets philanthropy. The whole world got to take a piece of pill which for most of us was not of our making. Now Europe is desperately trying to not go down the plughole with the turbid bathwater they've been soaping in since. You don't really have to be any sort of scientist to see that whatever levers or knobs the global finance communities adjust or twiddle they're running out of smoke and mirrors.

The problem is that we all tend to need a bit of money, real or imagined, as it helps feed the cat and power the tele... Globally it's far easier for us to turn up the volume (and drown out the noise of the neighbours ride-on), and pretend that the financiers really are all very clever. She'll-be-right makes the sausages taste better on the barbie, and burning the crap out of them means you don't really notice what they're made or have to worry that they might actually be a bit off.

The Occupy-Together people aren't really any different from the most of us, except they're suspicious of the barbie. And when you can't trust the BBQ there's got to be something more fundamental wrong.....

Well said.

The other issue is that in many countries the people who have the biggest influence on the laws that get passed are the same people who benefit most from those laws: the already wealthy and powerful.

This raises a very real problem: when the democratic avenues for addressing the problems are effectively blocked by vested interests....people have no way to change anything. You can't even have a proper debate because almost all the media is owned by foreign corporations and our local state-owned media gets threatened with funding cuts if they rock the boat. I cannot forgive National for this last item.

Here in New Zealand, we are seeing the same things, though MMP has greatly moderated the potential for disconnect between the governing and the governed. But this government wants to get rid of MMP...and leave us all in the same situation Americans are in: no democratic way to stop the powerful minority from doing as they please.

If we get rid of MMP and adopt something like SM, PV or go back to FPP we will be returned to the situation where the voting system gives 100% of the power to a single minority that the majority did NOT vote for.

The influence of corporations here is obvious:

1. Why is the National government so keen to sell state energy assets that return 7.9% on capital EVERY year for a one-off reduction in debt they are probably paying less than 5% on? That's like quitting your job to get your holiday pay. Yet they appear to be set on doing what is obviously a dumb thing to do.

2. They want to hand the lucrative parts of ACC coverage to the same insurance companies who now refuse to insure buildings in Christchurch. Why are these insurers being REWARDED at our expense?

3. Why is National so keen to drill offshore given the now VERY obvious inevitability of a serious spill at some stage in the future.

Again....like the corporate lackies in America, they are happy to take on risks they KNOW someone else (us...) will have to pay for. All so some big global corporates can make loads of money....while WE all carry the risk of not just the cost of any damage.....but having to live with the consequences of the damages.

This is what people are angry about....and a thousand other issues where the very few have been able to cut their costs and transfer them to taxpayers - thanks the politicians who should be representing all the people but who, instead, are the agents of the corporations in fleecing the people....or just leaving them to pay for the consequences of the mistakes of others. The 1% others.

Can you define one, clear set of demands that will address all this? It won't be easy. There are now so many issues tangled up together in the defacto failure of democracy the solution will be something relovutionary..

The answer in my eyes would be to see the US adopt a more Westminster-style Parliamentary form of government and to elect representatives by proportional representation. Get rid of the 50 states. Reduce the number to perhaps 10. Expand the House to 750 representatives. It has been 435 since 1911. Proportional representation would stop the states gerrymandering the district boundaries and perverting democracy election after election after election.

The problems in the US run very deep, but fundamentally they stem from the failure of democracy and the extinguishing of any effective accountability in both public and private spheres for both the 1% and their elected lackies.

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codyc1515

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#534051 16-Oct-2011 19:02

Linuxluver:
codyc1515: Go occupy a job.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/jobs

Don't flaunt your ignorance.

Whats your problem? You are jealous that you don't have as much money as others?

codyc1515

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#534054 16-Oct-2011 19:04

Linuxluver:
codyc1515:
jofizz: Is anyone able to explain, in a few succinct sentences, what the Occupy movement stands for?

Thanks,
Joseph

Inciting violence in order to overthrow governments.

You're flaunting your ignorance again. It makes you look not so smart...and proud of it.

Bad combo.

Stop calling me ignorant and open your eyes: people are being paid to participate in the protests! There could only be one reason for this.
http://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/gov/2618821815.html

gzt

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#534072 16-Oct-2011 20:26

codyc1515:
Linuxluver:
codyc1515:
jofizz: Is anyone able to explain, in a few succinct sentences, what the Occupy movement stands for?

Thanks,
Joseph

Inciting violence in order to overthrow governments.

You're flaunting your ignorance again. It makes you look not so smart...and proud of it.

Bad combo.

Stop calling me ignorant and open your eyes: people are being paid to participate in the protests! There could only be one reason for this.
http://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/gov/2618821815.html

Did you read the whole thing? ROTFL!!

"We're organizing in communities around New York State -- but we don't hire people to Occupy Wall Street. Then again, if you believe the laughable conspiracy theories from Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh, this is probably the wrong job for you anyway."

The page title is: "FIGHT TO HOLD WALLSTREET ACCOUNTABLE NOW! MAKE A DIFFERNENCE GET PAID!" - typical attention catching advertising.. looks like it worked

Where did you find that link by the way?

[edit: add emoticons, format, and last sentence]

codyc1515

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#534074 16-Oct-2011 20:31

gzt:
codyc1515:
Linuxluver:
codyc1515:
jofizz: Is anyone able to explain, in a few succinct sentences, what the Occupy movement stands for?

Thanks,
Joseph

Inciting violence in order to overthrow governments.

You're flaunting your ignorance again. It makes you look not so smart...and proud of it.

Bad combo.

Stop calling me ignorant and open your eyes: people are being paid to participate in the protests! There could only be one reason for this.
http://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/gov/2618821815.html

"We're organizing in communities around New York State -- but we don't hire people to Occupy Wall Street. Then again, if you believe the laughable conspiracy theories from Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh, this is probably the wrong job for you anyway."

You're right, they're paying people to occupy somewhere else.

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