Occupy Together!!

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#567767 12-Jan-2012 09:59

listudio: Not sure? really? Then try to pray 3 times of 'God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; the courage to change the things I can; and the wisdom to know the difference'. It might work. Good luck! Cheers!

You lost me at the words "Pray" and "God". Both which don't fit in my vocabulary.

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KissySellOut

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#567769 12-Jan-2012 10:04

@lyonrouge In answer to your question all the occupy movement want from the masses is some kind of moral support perhaps and for them to realise that they have the power to make a difference to the world. One women said it's the difference between light and dark, knowing and unknowing. "You have the power to change the world", so the sign reads.

Many of the campers aren't on benefits and do work (those I've spoken with, that is most in Aotea Square) and a lot of them including myself (though I'm not there right now...) have saved up for a long time to travel.

The unemployment benefit in this country is LOW anyway. In my opinion it is no where near enough to pay for all house hold bills, food and a place to live. The whole financial system needs some major tweaks and I really don't think that's just the opinion of 1% of the population. Interest should be lower especially for risky lenders (first time, bad history etc.) so it would be easier to accquire the money back with our putting people out. If you've read up on all this I won't bore you with dozens of other reasons.

Since those awful prison like council fences have been removed, strangers approach the camp more, people greet us with smiles and interest, rather than glares and ignorance plus there's even more people using the rest of the square place. I seriously do not understand why sooo many people here oppose it. Honestly, am I the only pro Occupy person here??

KissySellOut

Talkiet

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#567778 12-Jan-2012 10:13

KissySellOut: [snip]

The unemployment benefit in this country is LOW anyway. In my opinion it is no where near enough to pay for all house hold bills, food and a place to live. The whole financial system needs some major tweaks and I really don't think that's just the opinion of 1% of the population. Interest should be lower especially for risky lenders (first time, bad history etc.) so it would be easier to accquire the money back with our putting people out. If you've read up on all this I won't bore you with dozens of other reasons.

KissySellOut

So you believe that the unemployment benefit should be sufficient to ensure someone doesn't have to work if they don't want to?

And that higher risk loans should have LOWER interest rates than safer loans?

These will both drive extremely unpleasant social outcomes. but I suspect you can't see them.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

listudio

196 posts

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#567787 12-Jan-2012 10:36

Today you even have a choice to be unemployed if you really want - not too long ago you'd beg or starve.

KiwiNZ: Those people fouling the park in Wellington are against the people that work, pay taxes so they can draw a Benefit and spend months doing nothing and fouling a public park.

They hate the system but will take it's money.

One of the main qualifications for the Unemployment Benefit is that they are unemployed and are actively seeking employment. These people clearly are not meeting that requirement. Cancel their Benefits retrospectively, problem solved.

That presents a common view here. Let me ask you, do you guy want to live in a society without a social welfare system? Didn’t our beloved John Key grow up in a state house? So you believe that the people who are supported by the system don’t contribute to this society?Ok, no one likes bummers or liggers, and yes, some people may take advantages of the system, but it’s the people who are in the positions make the rules, not people living in the state houses make the rules. So who should be blamed for? The system has the problems itself.

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listudio

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#567792 12-Jan-2012 10:44

I utterly disagree... If someone acts angry, wears strange clothes, displays anti-social behaviours, makes unconvincing, poor, rambling speeches then I WILL judge them as a miscreant or a misfit.

To judge them any other way means you are not judging them on their actions.

"Honestly your honour, he's a good guy really, just don't judge him on those murders wot he did!"

It just doesn't matter how good a cause might be in theory (and I'm not saying this one is any good BTW), if it is represented by ranting whingers with incoherent demands / policies / wishes, then it's going nowhere.

One of the things I heard put forward was a 'maximum wage'... I mean, you only have to give that 30 seconds thought to realise anyone seriously postulating it doesn't have a clue.

Cheers - N

ps, 'wears strange clothes' is unfair - It only got included in my list as a point from your post. Wearing strange clothes is fine by me.

Alright, I am not surprised…shall we sign a disagreement here? :D

If you read the Bible again, you would repent for what you put here. The Bible is a book of love, uu..universal love, not the love only for BIG ME.Pls check that I didn’t put ‘strange clothes’ on my last post. I mean people might look at some negative side of a few protesters, it doesn’t mean all of them are like that, just be fair.

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listudio

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#567795 12-Jan-2012 10:52

One may blamed his neighbour stealing his eggs, but don’t know why his chickens disappeared…

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vinnieg

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#567796 12-Jan-2012 10:55

listudio:
Didn’t our beloved John Key grow up in a state house?
- Not my beloved, or 53% of this countries beloved. Didn't vote for him

So you believe that the people who are supported by the system don’t contribute to this society?
Don't think John Key has made much of a contribution, except to make this country poorer

I have moved across the ditch. Now residing in Melbourne as a VOIP/Video Technical Trainer/Engineer.

MikeB4

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#567799 12-Jan-2012 10:56

KissySellOut: @lyonrouge In answer to your question all the occupy movement want from the masses is some kind of moral support perhaps and for them to realise that they have the power to make a difference to the world. One women said it's the difference between light and dark, knowing and unknowing. "You have the power to change the world", so the sign reads.

Many of the campers aren't on benefits and do work (those I've spoken with, that is most in Aotea Square) and a lot of them including myself (though I'm not there right now...) have saved up for a long time to travel.

The unemployment benefit in this country is LOW anyway. In my opinion it is no where near enough to pay for all house hold bills, food and a place to live. The whole financial system needs some major tweaks and I really don't think that's just the opinion of 1% of the population. Interest should be lower especially for risky lenders (first time, bad history etc.) so it would be easier to accquire the money back with our putting people out. If you've read up on all this I won't bore you with dozens of other reasons.

Since those awful prison like council fences have been removed, strangers approach the camp more, people greet us with smiles and interest, rather than glares and ignorance plus there's even more people using the rest of the square place. I seriously do not understand why sooo many people here oppose it. Honestly, am I the only pro Occupy person here??

KissySellOut

The Unemployment Benefit is a short term safety net, it is not a career choice.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Talkiet

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#567800 12-Jan-2012 10:56

listudio: [snip]
If you read the Bible again, [snip]

Again, please stop with the assumptions and false attributions.

I haven't even read the bible a first time... There's heaps of more relevant fiction I choose to read.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

vinnieg

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#567801 12-Jan-2012 10:57

listudio:
If you read the Bible again, you would repent for what you put here. The Bible is a book of love, uu..universal love, not the love only for BIG ME.Pls check that I didn’t put ‘strange clothes’ on my last post. I mean people might look at some negative side of a few protesters, it doesn’t mean all of them are like that, just be fair.

Oh no, here we go. the Bible is not a book of "love". Though shall not blah blah blah, or they shall be burned in hell. How is that love?

Has the Occupy Movement suddenly turned into a Christian protest group?

Again, I reiterate my point. Occupy has no goal or no meaning. Everyone in the group seems to be protesting different things. There is no clear goal. No leadership and no understanding of what's going on

I have moved across the ditch. Now residing in Melbourne as a VOIP/Video Technical Trainer/Engineer.

listudio

196 posts

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#567813 12-Jan-2012 11:21

vinnieg:
listudio:
If you read the Bible again, you would repent for what you put here. The Bible is a book of love, uu..universal love, not the love only for BIG ME.Pls check that I didn’t put ‘strange clothes’ on my last post. I mean people might look at some negative side of a few protesters, it doesn’t mean all of them are like that, just be fair.

Oh no, here we go. the Bible is not a book of "love". Though shall not blah blah blah, or they shall be burned in hell. How is that love?

Has the Occupy Movement suddenly turned into a Christian protest group?

Vinnieg, some wires on you blue head seem disconnected, pls check :D

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vinnieg

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#567817 12-Jan-2012 11:36

listudio:
Vinnieg, some wires on you blue head seem disconnected, pls check :D

Um no, I'm with the other 85-90% of New Zealanders who don't count Christianity as their religion.
Estimates of church attendance today range from 10–20%.

Why do you keep bringing your religion into the argument? It invalidates almost everything you say.
New Zealand should remain secular.

Choose to believe what you want, but you are in the minority, should we say the 1%

I have moved across the ditch. Now residing in Melbourne as a VOIP/Video Technical Trainer/Engineer.

listudio

196 posts

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#567824 12-Jan-2012 11:47

vinnieg:
listudio:
Vinnieg, some wires on you blue head seem disconnected, pls check :D

Um no, I'm with the other 85-90% of New Zealanders who don't count Christianity as their religion.
Estimates of church attendance today range from 10–20%.

Why do you keep bringing your religion into the argument? It invalidates almost everything you say.
New Zealand should remain secular.

Choose to believe what you want, but you are in the minority, should we say the 1%

Alright, I can't win, I surrender..

www.kenyasafariphotos.com

MikeB4

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#567826 12-Jan-2012 11:51

listudio:
Today you even have a choice to be unemployed if you really want - not too long ago you'd beg or starve.

KiwiNZ: Those people fouling the park in Wellington are against the people that work, pay taxes so they can draw a Benefit and spend months doing nothing and fouling a public park.

They hate the system but will take it's money.

One of the main qualifications for the Unemployment Benefit is that they are unemployed and are actively seeking employment. These people clearly are not meeting that requirement. Cancel their Benefits retrospectively, problem solved.

That presents a common view here. Let me ask you, do you guy want to live in a society without a social welfare system? Didn’t our beloved John Key grow up in a state house? So you believe that the people who are supported by the system don’t contribute to this society?Ok, no one likes bummers or liggers, and yes, some people may take advantages of the system, but it’s the people who are in the positions make the rules, not people living in the state houses make the rules. So who should be blamed for? The system has the problems itself.

Some 26 odd years ago I became very ill and ended up being Wheelchair dependent and on an Invalids Benefit. I retrained myself got off mt butt and changed career direction into IT. I found myself employment where I worked successfully for 23 years. Recently my condition flared and I was again wheelchair bound, as we had saved money, cleared our mortgage etc we decided I should retire on medical grounds and concentrate on getting well. I am on no Benefits and way too young for a pension, some 11 years to wait for that. We are self supporting. So the system works for those whose chose to let and not surrender.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

crackrdbycracku

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#567827 12-Jan-2012 11:53

OK, here goes an attempt at trying to understand.

I don't know if this is common but I don't really have a clue what the Occupy message actually is, reading this thread hasn't helped.

The common theme that I have seen coming through relates to wealth re-distribution.

Ok, but based on what? I hope the message is a bit more thought through than: from each according to their ability, to each according to their need. Seriously, 'take the money from the greedy rich people and give it to the poor people who need it' isn't a plan, it isn't anything really.

I don't like the Moaist communism of post-revolution China, the famine of the 50's was unbelievable. But those guys had a plan, sure not what anybody living here in NZ would call a 'good plan' but they replaced one system of government with another.

Can a pro-Occupy person give a brief outline of how wealth would be re-distributed? We are all grown ups so can we please avoid statements like 'people would all be nice to each other' or 'there would be major changes and things would be fair'.

I accept people need to vent, is that what Occupy is? If so, that's all good. I get feelings of frustration and non-directional angst. I also figure that people wanting to vent don't want to be told they are venting, sorry if I offended.

I personally think that life in 2012 lacks ... something to believe in, but I just don't think Occupy is providing an answer.

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