Occupy Together!!

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#534078 16-Oct-2011 20:39

codyc1515: You're right, they're paying people to occupy somewhere else.

How do you figure that out?

I don't know a thing about the organisation concerned but it looks like a community organising / lobbying job to me.

Where are you getting your information on this?

BurningBeard

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#534153 17-Oct-2011 07:46

Saw this tweet this morning from Michael Shermer:

"Went to Occupy Wall Street-Most 2nd hand pot smoke I've had since college! I estimate ~100 protesters 500 photographers"

My very metal Doctor Who theme

oxnsox

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#534156 17-Oct-2011 08:16

"Went to Occupy Wall Street-Most 2nd hand pot smoke I've had since college! I estimate ~100 protesters 500 photographers"

Good to see the media taking an interest... that'll bring balance

TheUngeek

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#534165 17-Oct-2011 09:06

The Wellington crowd looked like your typical NZ group of fringe alternative lifestylers and conspiracy theorists
Ie credibility = 0

Civil disobedience is our right. Oh lol

muppet

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#534168 17-Oct-2011 09:21

Linuxluver:
Muppet: The lack of clarity meme is one being put around as a talking point by the people who want to ignore this movement.

The "I'll try to discredit your opinion by calling it a meme" arguement is one beign put around as a talking point by the people who want to you realise they're loonies. [See how easy that is to do?]

Linuxluver: Don't fall for it.

Fall for what, having an opinion that a number of other people hold as well? Gee, big trap that one. I take it the idea that so many people have the same opinion may mean that opinion seems to be based somewhat in fact is crazy talk to you?

I've read many of the posts, the banners and some of the interviews, pretty much since it kicked off. Based on that, I've formed my own opinion and I stand by it.

Linuxluver: You appear to be listening to the wrong people.

Sorry Che, you'll have to try a bit harder than that. Vague hand-waving dismissive statements like the one you made just make you look like a loon. I'm not "listening to wrong people", I'm not listening to anyone. Just reading what people are posting, seeing some of their banners and their disorganised protests.

If you want to disagree with me, fine. But don't try to tell me my opinion is just a "meme", post some jibber jabber that people who wear tinfoil hats would be proud of, then expect me to take you seriously.

Linuxluver

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#534218 17-Oct-2011 11:38

TheUngeek: The Wellington crowd looked like your typical NZ group of fringe alternative lifestylers and conspiracy theorists
Ie credibility = 0

Civil disobedience is our right. Oh lol

The people who pay attention are usually the same people.

The people who laugh at the people who pay attention also seem to be the same people.

No real surprises anywhere in that loop.

It would be nice if the people laughing knew what the people demonstrating know....but that's most often a case of horse -> water -> no drink.

There are good reasons to be seeing this problem right here in NZ:

1. The govt appears intent on selling off assets that earn 7.9% on capital EVERY YEAR to pay off debt they are paying less than 5% interest on. That's a losing proposition no matter how you look at it. Quitting one's job to get one's holiday pay seems an apt comparison. Dumb.

Why would they do that if they had NZ's best interests firmly in view?

They wouldn't....so the answer becomes obvious: someone else's interests are being served. Not NZ's.

That alone is enough to justify demonstrating flat out. We're being ripped off for billions of dollars in that one example alone for the benefit of the 1% who we all know will end up buying these assets - Kiwis or not....and getting the profit ever after that we used to get.

OH..and Peak Oil means energy companies are going to be very lucrative. This is the WORST time to sell an energy asset you may own. It will be a reliable, significant earner in the years ahead.

Just not for us.....

What else would you need? Yet there is much more than this.

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Ragnor

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#534220 17-Oct-2011 11:40

Looking at the US the oddest thing is they are occupying the wrong place.... they should be protesting at the White House not Wall Street...

Who guaranteed the risky lending being done by banks?
Who has kept and is still keeping interest rates low?
Who is printing/inflating the money supply and devaluing savings?
Who bailed out banks that under a true capitalism should have been allowed to go bust?

The US government.

They are protesting a symptom not the cause of the illness.

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Ragnor

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#534222 17-Oct-2011 11:44

Linuxluver:

1. The govt appears intent on selling off assets that earn 7.9% on capital EVERY YEAR to pay off debt they are paying less than 5% interest on. That's a losing proposition no matter how you look at it. Quitting one's job to get one's holiday pay seems an apt comparison. Dumb.

Where are those figures from?

Also interest rates don't seem likely to stay at 5%, the US and EU have been artificially repressing rates but it can't continue forever.

Linuxluver

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#534223 17-Oct-2011 11:44

Ragnor: Looking at the US the oddest thing is they are occupying the wrong place.... they should be protesting at the White House not Wall Street...

Who guaranteed the risky lending being done by banks?
Who has kept and is still keeping interest rates low?
Who is printing/inflating the money supply and devaluing savings?
Who bailed out banks that under a true capitalism should have been allowed to go bust?

The US government.

They are protesting a symptom not the cause of the illness.

You appear to have missed the key link here: Goldman Sachs is, for all practical purposes, the US government. Their people were the Treasurer and heads of several of the Federal Reserves.

Wall Street is absolutely the correct place to be. The White House and Congress are their agents....not their masters.

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TheUngeek

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#534224 17-Oct-2011 11:45

Oh no! It's the Illuminati!

Dulouz

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#534226 17-Oct-2011 11:51

Ragnor: Looking at the US the oddest thing is they are occupying the wrong place.... they should be protesting at the White House not Wall Street...

Who guaranteed the risky lending being done by banks?
Who has kept and is still keeping interest rates low?
Who is printing/inflating the money supply and devaluing savings?
Who bailed out banks that under a true capitalism should have been allowed to go bust?

The US government.

They are protesting a symptom not the cause of the illness.

Yes - you have to ask why did/is the govt do/is doing these things?

Amanon

Ragnor

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#534228 17-Oct-2011 11:51

Linuxluver:

You appear to have missed the key link here: Goldman Sachs is, for all practical purposes, the US government. Their people were the Treasurer and heads of several of the Federal Reserves.

Wall Street is absolutely the correct place to be. The White House and Congress are their agents....not their masters.

The revolving door between public and private jobs in Washington and excessive money that's allowed to be spent on lobbying in the US is disturbing however protesting wall street doesn't do much imo.

Goldman Sachs don't have to respond to public pressure, elected officials do.

Linuxluver

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#534230 17-Oct-2011 11:53

Ragnor:
Linuxluver:

1. The govt appears intent on selling off assets that earn 7.9% on capital EVERY YEAR to pay off debt they are paying less than 5% interest on. That's a losing proposition no matter how you look at it. Quitting one's job to get one's holiday pay seems an apt comparison. Dumb.

Where are those figures from?

Also interest rates don't seem likely to stay at 5%, the US and EU have been artificially repressing rates but it can't continue forever.

Have a read of "Ten Myths About Asset Sales" by Gordon Campbell. He uses only official sources.

The interest rate our government is likely paying is much lower than 5%. That rate is the one we get after everyone else has added their margins.

In the places the government is borroqwing money the interest rates are close to zero....which makes assets sales to pay debt even more bizarrely a bad idea.

Let's leave aside for the moment that the government's tax cuts have hugely contributed to the debt.

Looks to me like they are following the US GOP programme: Cut taxes -> Grow debt -> Cut taxes again so wage earner have to pay off this nice big debt....and then use the debt to justify gutting public services (and instead hand barrow-loads of cash to the private sector..who you then pass laws preventing them from ever being sued).

I didn't think Kiwis were dumb enough to fall for it with the clear evidence of how it worked out in the US in the news every evening. Guess they didn't make the connection.

But the people in Occupy movement have made the connection.

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Zeon

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#534232 17-Oct-2011 11:55

I don't care if bankers make crap loads of money. The thing that really pisses me off is government bailouts ie socialism for the capitalist elite. If they want to take the risks, so be it as long as there is transparency to the investor. But when it goes belly up and they ask the government for money - they should all be left to go bankrupt.

Also the concept in the US where you can 'give the keys back" and walk away from your debts is absurd.

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TheUngeek

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#534234 17-Oct-2011 11:58

Btw National have not been in power long enough to do all that.
Labour started it.
Then again you probably think they are puppets of the New World Order as well.

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