Forms of government for New Zealand

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#1026227 16-Apr-2014 14:15

KiwiNZ: I do not think we are ready for electronic voting yet

Hanging chads is what we need....!

MikeB4

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#1026230 16-Apr-2014 14:19

The changes I would like to see are...

1. Extend the term of office to 4 years.
2. The voting public decide who in the Government shall be the Prime Minister not the party or Cabinet.
3. Raise the threshold for gaining seats from 5% to 8%.
4. Ban list MP's from changing parties whilst in office.
5. restrict list MP's to a maximum of two terms.If at the end of their second term they are elected as a constituent PM they can remain in Parliament.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Sidestep

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#1026231 16-Apr-2014 14:36

Geektastic:
So there can easily be an option: want to vote but no NZ passport? Register on the list as now.
Want to vote and have a NZ passport? Either take it along on voting day (where it can be stamped to avoid multiple votes being cast) OR go on the list.

Replace "passport"with Govt issued E-ID and it becomes easier.. It's already all on a database somewhere.

I agree with some of @KiwiNZ's changes, but they're just tweaks to an already over complicated system. It's become bloated.

We need a clean slate, a paradigm shift.

I'm thinking E-Direct Democracy in a system universally available to all eligible voters.

It's possibly just around the corner.

“Senator Online” was a failed Australian shot at a system of EDD for their upper house.

There are plenty of other EDD versions being looked at around the world

turnin

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#1026293 16-Apr-2014 15:48

What will a different form of government actually achieve if it lets those with select agendas practice within it ?
I think , I assume like most people, that a countries people should own its assets, make its laws, determine its future etc. Not the political advisers that come from another country and almost literally dictate policy.

We have a multitude of issues and viewpoints which the media incorrectly simplfy down to a left-right wing spectrum based argument.
Govts have a hard job to do in some cases having to take a stand that most people actually disagree with, of late we have seen examples where multiple referendums have been totally ignored.
Anyone who opposes the governments view is labelled a dissenter, rent a crowd, misinformed etc.

I also think the majority of people don't always know what is actually best for them ( compulsory retirement savings etc)
In every case however it is the privately owned media that ends up manufacturing public opinion which make referendum results inevitable.
So in my mind the real issue is who should control what.

Should government policy be determined/influenced by donations of money from big companies? ( americanied lobbying system)
Should assets be owned by governments or alternate groups of citizens ?
Should the media be able to manufacture consent as they currently do , yet be insulated from scrutiny?

We have currently is a semi democratic soft power system, large numbers of people are opposed to things like the GCSB bill or the the incoming TPP, yet media do what the govt influence them to do and instead create distractions so that more people are concerned with menial distractions.
If you want to control your own country you must control those who speak to it and reason with it, this is what needs to change first.

Sidestep

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#1026317 16-Apr-2014 16:54

That's exactly what an EDD type system would achieve.

The “Privately owned media manufacturing public opinion” thing's a big issue.
It's likely to get harder to do in the “interactive” future.
New Media's one of the keys to EDD.

TV's still the dominant news source for now.
I'm sure history will look back at us, laugh at our gullibility, see our “news”as what it often is- an attempt to manipulate and brainwash the public with subtly slanted stories.
Would the Edward Snowdon or Wikileaks expose's ever have been publicised without the internet? Doubt it..

Everyone's told Direct Democracy will go off the rails without the wise, fatherly leadership of our elders and betters in Parliament. Those-Who-Know-What's-Best-For-Us.
We'll end up with no taxes and free Jellybeans for everyone...

That's pretty much what they said about giving women the right to vote.
And “cutting edge” New Zealand was the first country to allow that.

You've got to trust in people's ability to vote on important issues in a reasoned manner.
A lot of things you'll have a “bell curve” of opinion - radical fringes at each edge and the majority in the middle.
If your opinion sits at the outer edge of the curve – you're probably a radical:)

turnin

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#1026440 16-Apr-2014 20:53

Yep, the benefits of EDD are obvious, I believe the cost of a public referendum is about 9 Million dollars, which is truly nuts. As a result they are few and far between. Local politicians have little idea about how their constituency feels about various topics and EDD may put extra pressure on them to vote the way their electorate wants rather than toe the party line, which is truly undemocratic.
Currently there is no realistic format for the public to be part of constructive ongoing public ideation.
A simple cellphone voting app could be made for less than 1/10th, perhaps 1/100th of the cost of 1 referendum and could serve the country very well. I believe we are overdue for this, rather than not ready.
Lumio addresses the ideation part, surely this will be a mechanism for referendum participation also
http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/digital-living/60040175/edemocracy-project-hits-crowdfund-target

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#1026443 16-Apr-2014 21:06

turnin: Yep, the benefits of EDD are obvious, I believe the cost of a public referendum is about 9 Million dollars, which is truly nuts. As a result they are few and far between. Local politicians have little idea about how their constituency feels about various topics and EDD may put extra pressure on them to vote the way their electorate wants rather than toe the party line, which is truly undemocratic.
Currently there is no realistic format for the public to be part of constructive ongoing public ideation.
A simple cellphone voting app could be made for less than 1/10th, perhaps 1/100th of the cost of 1 referendum and could serve the country very well. I believe we are overdue for this, rather than not ready.
Lumio addresses the ideation part, surely this will be a mechanism for referendum participation also
http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/digital-living/60040175/edemocracy-project-hits-crowdfund-target

Citizen initiated referenda are few and far between as they need a petition with excess of 200,000 signatures.

As for E democracy it has about the same chances of flying as a lead balloon.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

gzt

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#1026485 16-Apr-2014 22:03

That myth is busted. As for e-democracy we will need to consider very carefully what kind of issues we can really address with that. Imho the value of electronic democracy is in discussion and sharing of views around issues and this will naturally hold representatives more accountable, like any expansion of media already has.

gzt

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#1026491 16-Apr-2014 22:14

It would be good start to ban and penalise public opinion management firms and paid individuals from contributing without attribution acknowledging who is paying them on any particular day as they do at present.

jonherries

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#1026594 17-Apr-2014 08:55

KiwiNZ:
Sidestep:
Geektastic:
The right to vote descends from my NZ citizenship, not from my presence on a list. Ergo, proof of citizenship in the form of a NZ passport presented on polling day should entitle the person presenting the passport to vote, whether on a list or not.

Except.. It doesn't.

Permanent Residents of New Zealand vote in elections.

My wife's not a NZ passport holder. She votes.

Correct

Entitled to enrole as a voter if you...
are 18 years or older, and
have lived in New Zealand for more than one year continuously at some time in your life, and
are a New Zealand citizen, or
are a permanent resident of New Zealand*

Even better in the UK, I merely need to have been here 3 months and be a commonwealth citizen, sure I cant get any benefits, free access to healthcare, but dammit I can vote!

Small wrinkle is that I am in Northern Ireland, they have this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consociationalism which is bizarre.

Jon

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#1026845 17-Apr-2014 13:12

I've always thought that the ideal government would be something like:
1) Republic independent state (rule by the people under a founding constitution, promoting human rights, privacy and freedom of everything)
2) Combined with an e-democracy (laws directly voted on and proposed by electorate via internet)
3) Combined with a technocracy (so government representatives would not be economists, businessmen and lawyers, but rather: top experts in relevant fields like engineering, medicine, computer science, sociology, agricultural science, mathematics, statistics etc...; selected by how expert and knowledgeable they are in their field, rather than being voted in on personality)

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#1026867 17-Apr-2014 13:38

Sidestep: I like idea of the British Westminster system - but perhaps with a few tweaks to make things more equitable.

We certainly need a Parliament – a House of Representatives who's members are fairly elected representatives of the people, to run the country and make the laws , but a Senate or Upper House to double check and rubber stamp legislation? – they'd end up being dead weight at the Taxpayer's expense – so don't want them.

I do think we need a kind of safety valve on the system though, an arbitor who's powers are so restricted they can only step in in an absolute emergency, and perhaps at the request of the people dissolve Parliament if it somehow goes off the rails.... but not be able to morph into a dictator, a sort of State Figurehead (we could maybe call them “Royals”)

Oh .. hang on..

New Zealand has a house of representatives (lower house), there used to be an upper house known as the legislative council but it was stopped I think in the early 50s.

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MikeB4

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#1026868 17-Apr-2014 13:39

KieranReid: I've always thought that the ideal government would be something like:
1) Republic independent state (rule by the people under a founding constitution, promoting human rights, privacy and freedom of everything)
2) Combined with an e-democracy (laws directly voted on and proposed by electorate via internet)
3) Combined with a technocracy (so government representatives would not be economists, businessmen and lawyers, but rather: top experts in relevant fields like engineering, medicine, computer science, sociology, agricultural science, mathematics, statistics etc...; selected by how expert and knowledgeable they are in their field, rather than being voted in on personality)

Freedom in everything? so crime would be OK

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

chewster

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#1026873 17-Apr-2014 13:42

KiwiNZ:
KieranReid: I've always thought that the ideal government would be something like:
1) Republic independent state (rule by the people under a founding constitution, promoting human rights, privacy and freedom of everything)
2) Combined with an e-democracy (laws directly voted on and proposed by electorate via internet)
3) Combined with a technocracy (so government representatives would not be economists, businessmen and lawyers, but rather: top experts in relevant fields like engineering, medicine, computer science, sociology, agricultural science, mathematics, statistics etc...; selected by how expert and knowledgeable they are in their field, rather than being voted in on personality)

Freedom in everything? so crime would be OK

Not what I meant, was just a quick way to allude to freedoms like speech, religion, individual economic choice, and association and assembly etc, written into a constitution.

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MikeB4

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#1026875 17-Apr-2014 13:46

KieranReid: I've always thought that the ideal government would be something like:
1) Republic independent state (rule by the people under a founding constitution, promoting human rights, privacy and freedom of everything)
2) Combined with an e-democracy (laws directly voted on and proposed by electorate via internet)
3) Combined with a technocracy (so government representatives would not be economists, businessmen and lawyers, but rather: top experts in relevant fields like engineering, medicine, computer science, sociology, agricultural science, mathematics, statistics etc...; selected by how expert and knowledgeable they are in their field, rather than being voted in on personality)

E-Democracy no thanks , wait hang on we could use Kiosks

they are secure.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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