Forms of government for New Zealand

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charsleysa

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#143461 15-Apr-2014 16:38

Currently New Zealand has a Parliamentary Constitutional Monarchy as our form of government.

I would like to hear your thoughts about whether we should keep the current form of government or seek a new form of government.

To start off the discussion I will propose that New Zealand should have a Parliamentary Meritocracy.

To aid the understanding of the differences I have listed their defining attributes, I welcome other types of government into this discussion.

Parliamentary Constitutional Monarchy
Variant of monarchy; a system of governance that has a monarch, but one whose powers are limited by law or by a formal constitution.
A system of democratic government in which the ministers of the executive branch derive their legitimacy from and are accountable to a legislature or parliament; the executive and legislative branches are interconnected. It is a political system in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who can elect people to represent them.

Parliamentary Meritocracy
Rule by the meritorious; a system of governance where groups are selected on the basis of people's ability, knowledge in a given area, and contributions to society.
A system of democratic government in which the ministers of the executive branch derive their legitimacy from and are accountable to a legislature or parliament; the executive and legislative branches are interconnected. It is a political system in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who can elect people to represent them.

Regards
Stefan Andres Charsley

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MikeB4
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#1025698 15-Apr-2014 16:52

No thanks, we should stick with what we have, no need for elitist nonsense.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

charsleysa

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#1025700 15-Apr-2014 16:59

KiwiNZ: No thanks, we should stick with what we have, no need for elitist nonsense.

What we have already is elitist.

How much of a chance do you think you have of becoming king or queen? None whatsoever because you must be born into the position.

Regards
Stefan Andres Charsley

MikeB4

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#1025704 15-Apr-2014 17:04

The Queen is Head of State with limited powers, the Government is those guys in the Beehive.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Sidestep

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#1025705 15-Apr-2014 17:05

I like idea of the British Westminster system - but perhaps with a few tweaks to make things more equitable.

We certainly need a Parliament – a House of Representatives who's members are fairly elected representatives of the people, to run the country and make the laws , but a Senate or Upper House to double check and rubber stamp legislation? – they'd end up being dead weight at the Taxpayer's expense – so don't want them.

I do think we need a kind of safety valve on the system though, an arbitor who's powers are so restricted they can only step in in an absolute emergency, and perhaps at the request of the people dissolve Parliament if it somehow goes off the rails.... but not be able to morph into a dictator, a sort of State Figurehead (we could maybe call them “Royals”)

Oh .. hang on..

Dratsab

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#1025707 15-Apr-2014 17:07

From Monty Python's "Holy Grail"

Scene 3

[clop clop]

ARTHUR: Old woman!

DENNIS: Man!

ARTHUR: Old Man, sorry. What knight lives in that castle over there?

DENNIS: I'm thirty seven.

ARTHUR: What?

DENNIS: I'm thirty seven -- I'm not old!

ARTHUR: Well, I can't just call you `Man'.

DENNIS: Well, you could say `Dennis'.

ARTHUR: Well, I didn't know you were called `Dennis.'

DENNIS: Well, you didn't bother to find out, did you?

ARTHUR: I did say sorry about the `old woman,' but from the behind

you looked--

DENNIS: What I object to is you automatically treat me like an inferior!

ARTHUR: Well, I AM king...

DENNIS: Oh king, eh, very nice. An' how'd you get that, eh? By

exploitin' the workers -- by 'angin' on to outdated imperialist dogma

which perpetuates the economic an' social differences in our society!

If there's ever going to be any progress--

WOMAN: Dennis, there's some lovely filth down here. Oh -- how d'you do?

ARTHUR: How do you do, good lady. I am Arthur, King of the Britons.

Who's castle is that?

WOMAN: King of the who?

ARTHUR: The Britons.

WOMAN: Who are the Britons?

ARTHUR: Well, we all are. we're all Britons and I am your king.

WOMAN: I didn't know we had a king. I thought we were an autonomous

collective.

DENNIS: You're fooling yourself. We're living in a dictatorship.

A self-perpetuating autocracy in which the working classes--

WOMAN: Oh there you go, bringing class into it again.

DENNIS: That's what it's all about if only people would--

ARTHUR: Please, please good people. I am in haste. Who lives

in that castle?

WOMAN: No one lives there.

ARTHUR: Then who is your lord?

WOMAN: We don't have a lord.

ARTHUR: What?

DENNIS: I told you. We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take

it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week.

ARTHUR: Yes.

DENNIS: But all the decision of that officer have to be ratified

at a special biweekly meeting.

ARTHUR: Yes, I see.

DENNIS: By a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs,--

ARTHUR: Be quiet!

DENNIS: --but by a two-thirds majority in the case of more--

ARTHUR: Be quiet! I order you to be quiet!

WOMAN: Order, eh -- who does he think he is?

ARTHUR: I am your king!

WOMAN: Well, I didn't vote for you.

ARTHUR: You don't vote for kings.

WOMAN: Well, 'ow did you become king then?

ARTHUR: The Lady of the Lake,

[angels sing]

her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft Excalibur

from the bosom of the water signifying by Divine Providence that I,

Arthur, was to carry Excalibur.

[singing stops]

That is why I am your king!

DENNIS: Listen -- strange women lying in ponds distributing swords

is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power

derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical

aquatic ceremony.

ARTHUR: Be quiet!

DENNIS: Well you can't expect to wield supreme executive power

just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!

ARTHUR: Shut up!

DENNIS: I mean, if I went around sayin' I was an empereror just

because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me they'd

put me away!

ARTHUR: Shut up! Will you shut up!

DENNIS: Ah, now we see the violence inherent in the system.

ARTHUR: Shut up!

DENNIS: Oh! Come and see the violence inherent in the system!

HELP! HELP! I'm being repressed!

ARTHUR: Bloody peasant!

DENNIS: Oh, what a give away. Did you hear that, did you hear that,

eh? That's what I'm on about -- did you see him repressing me,

you saw it didn't you?

EDIT: Cut and paste - no responsibility taken for spelling errors

charsleysa

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#1025714 15-Apr-2014 17:15

KiwiNZ: The Queen is Head of State with limited powers, the Government is those guys in the Beehive.

Yes, your point being?

My point was the fact that you'll never be able to become head of state government with the current government because you must be part of an elitist group, therefore already having the elitist nonsense you wanted to avoid.

Regards
Stefan Andres Charsley

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wellygary

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#1025716 15-Apr-2014 17:20

charsleysa:
Parliamentary Meritocracy
Rule by the meritorious; a system of governance where groups are selected on the basis of people's ability, knowledge in a given area, and contributions to society.

Selected by whom, and how...

MikeB4

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#1025718 15-Apr-2014 17:21

charsleysa:
KiwiNZ: The Queen is Head of State with limited powers, the Government is those guys in the Beehive.

Yes, your point being?

My point was the fact that you'll never be able to become head of state government with the current government because you must be part of an elitist group, therefore already having the elitist nonsense you wanted to avoid.

My point was anyone can become the Leader of our fine little Dominion. The PM and House of Representatives are the Government NOT the Head of State. Therefore our current Government is not an elitist group.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

charsleysa

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#1025720 15-Apr-2014 17:25

KiwiNZ:
charsleysa:
KiwiNZ: The Queen is Head of State with limited powers, the Government is those guys in the Beehive.

Yes, your point being?

My point was the fact that you'll never be able to become head of state government with the current government because you must be part of an elitist group, therefore already having the elitist nonsense you wanted to avoid.

My point was anyone can become the Leader of our fine little Dominion. The PM and House of Representatives are the Government NOT the Head of State. Therefore our current Government is not an elitist group.

The Head of State is part of the government, therefore a portion of our government is elitist.

There is no need for a elitist monarchical head of state.

Regards
Stefan Andres Charsley

MikeB4

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#1025723 15-Apr-2014 17:31

charsleysa:
KiwiNZ:
charsleysa:
KiwiNZ: The Queen is Head of State with limited powers, the Government is those guys in the Beehive.

Yes, your point being?

My point was the fact that you'll never be able to become head of state government with the current government because you must be part of an elitist group, therefore already having the elitist nonsense you wanted to avoid.

My point was anyone can become the Leader of our fine little Dominion. The PM and House of Representatives are the Government NOT the Head of State. Therefore our current Government is not an elitist group.

The Head of State is part of the government, therefore a portion of our government is elitist.

There is no need for a elitist monarchical head of state.

The Governor General our Head of State in practice was an Army Private, so anyone can become head of state

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Sidestep

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#1025724 15-Apr-2014 17:37

I propose E-democracy..

Wikipedia: (a combination of the words electronic and democracy) incorporates 21st century information and communications technology to promote democracy.
That means a form of government in which all adult citizens are presumed to be eligible to participate equally in the proposal, development, and creation of laws.

And all votes should be cast using SSL to make the results safe and secure.

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charsleysa

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#1025726 15-Apr-2014 17:40

KiwiNZ:
charsleysa:
KiwiNZ:
charsleysa:
KiwiNZ: The Queen is Head of State with limited powers, the Government is those guys in the Beehive.

Yes, your point being?

My point was the fact that you'll never be able to become head of state government with the current government because you must be part of an elitist group, therefore already having the elitist nonsense you wanted to avoid.

My point was anyone can become the Leader of our fine little Dominion. The PM and House of Representatives are the Government NOT the Head of State. Therefore our current Government is not an elitist group.

The Head of State is part of the government, therefore a portion of our government is elitist.

There is no need for a elitist monarchical head of state.

The Governor General our Head of State in practice was an Army Private, so anyone can become head of state

Incorrect. The Governor General is not our head of state. The Governor General is the Queen's representative, this is specifically outlined on the Governor General's website.

Regards
Stefan Andres Charsley

MikeB4

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#1025727 15-Apr-2014 17:45

I said Head of State in practice.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

charsleysa

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#1025730 15-Apr-2014 17:51

Sidestep: I propose E-democracy..

Wikipedia: (a combination of the words electronic and democracy) incorporates 21st century information and communications technology to promote democracy.
That means a form of government in which all adult citizens are presumed to be eligible to participate equally in the proposal, development, and creation of laws.

And all votes should be cast using SSL to make the results safe and secure.

This form of government could be quite difficult to manage if not done so with care.

The Electoral Commission would have to be in charge of making sure each person only has one account and that no one is able to take on more than one identity otherwise it would lead to fraudulent and unfair creation of laws.

Regards
Stefan Andres Charsley

SaltyNZ

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#1025736 15-Apr-2014 18:01

charsleysa:

How much of a chance do you think you have of becoming king or queen? None whatsoever because you must be born into the position.

You can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart lobbed a sword at you!

EDIT: GODDAMNIT DRATSAB!

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