Dallas shootings - 10 officers shot

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#1590492 12-Jul-2016 18:47

shk292: Cops have to make very rapid decisions in very dangerous circumstances and sometimes they get it wrong

Sometimes? lmfao.

Then the whole american justice system "sometimes get it wrong".

It's horrifying.

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#1590496 12-Jul-2016 18:57

A couple more links...

Washington Post: Blacks continued to be shot at 2.5 times the rate of whites.

And the count as of now.... https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-2016/?tid=a_inl

The Guardian says it's 574

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#1590507 12-Jul-2016 19:56

blakamin:

shk292: Cops have to make very rapid decisions in very dangerous circumstances and sometimes they get it wrong

Sometimes? lmfao.

Then the whole american justice system "sometimes get it wrong".

It's horrifying.

Yes, SOMETIMES. How many decisions do Police officers make a day? Millions I'd guess, how many do they get wrong? SOME.

I'm not saying more effort shouldn't be made, or that the mistakes made aren't tragedies, but I did feel compelled to help you understand "sometimes" since you seemed to be struggling with it's definition :)

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#1590516 12-Jul-2016 20:10

networkn:

Yes, SOMETIMES. How many decisions do Police officers make a day? Millions I'd guess, how many do they get wrong? SOME.

I'm not saying more effort shouldn't be made, or that the mistakes made aren't tragedies, but I did feel compelled to help you understand "sometimes" since you seemed to be struggling with it's definition :)

Millions? I don't think anyone is capable of making millions of decisions a day.
So shooting someone reaching for a wallet, or reaching for nothing while you have tased them and pinned them on the grounds is OK because "sometimes" you can get sh*t wrong?

Sometimes I might forget to add a full stop to a sentence, or sometimes I might forget to turn my laptop off, I'm pretty sure I'm not going to sometimes shoot someone in the chest, Twice, because "sometimes" I might make a mistake.

How about your reply to someone who accidentally left a gun in the beehive? Surely sometimes, he's allowed to make a mistake.

Edit: Because sometimes my spacebar doesn't work, but it's not going to result in someone being shot.

Ohh, look, sometimes these police officers write stuff to each other, but I'm sure it's only sometimes, and clearly a mistake.

People should read this, because this is what america has created. By "sometimes making mistakes" http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/king-micah-johnson-making-america-racist-creation-article-1.2704556

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#1590535 12-Jul-2016 20:32

blakamin:

networkn:

Yes, SOMETIMES. How many decisions do Police officers make a day? Millions I'd guess, how many do they get wrong? SOME.

I'm not saying more effort shouldn't be made, or that the mistakes made aren't tragedies, but I did feel compelled to help you understand "sometimes" since you seemed to be struggling with it's definition :)

Millions? I don't think anyone is capable of making millions of decisions a day.
So shooting someone reaching for a wallet, or reaching for nothing while you have tased them and pinned them on the grounds is OK because "sometimes" you can get sh*t wrong?

Sometimes I might forget to add a full stop to a sentence, or sometimes I might forget to turn my laptop off, I'm pretty sure I'm not going to sometimes shoot someone in the chest, Twice, because "sometimes" I might make a mistake.

How about your reply to someone who accidentally left a gun in the beehive? Surely sometimes, he's allowed to make a mistake.

Edit: Because sometimes my spacebar doesn't work, but it's not going to result in someone being shot.

Ohh, look, sometimes these police officers write stuff to each other, but I'm sure it's only sometimes, and clearly a mistake.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you have genuinely misunderstood my point rather than twisted it to bait a response.

I am saying that police across America make millions of decisions related to their jobs, every day (Collectively, in case it's STILL not clear). Sometimes they will make a mistake. It was simply clarifying that YES, SOMETIMES mistakes get made.

As I clearly stated, ALL of these cases are tragedies. I believe there are SOME bad cops and those people should be held to account.

As a point of reference, I have been on multiple Ride Alongs as a young person considering the police force as a career path, and I have ALSO been on ride-a-longs in the USA law enforcement. I can tell you that the US experience was FAR FAR more scary.

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#1590543 12-Jul-2016 20:43

Training would help. It appears there are current proposals for better training:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/05/12/proposal-to-congress-would-require-police-to-get-de-escalation-training-create-national-use-of-force-standard

There are also severe structural problems where some police are just part of a fine collecting regime to fund local authorities. This was the case in Ferguson to a large extent.

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#1590545 12-Jul-2016 20:47

networkn:

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you have genuinely misunderstood my point rather than twisted it to bait a response.

And none of that is what I was saying. Ever.

I'm saying "sometimes they get it wrong" is no excuse for 515 police shootings this year, or black people getting shot on a daily basis. It's not "sometimes they get it wrong", it's trigger happy racist ars3holes or just trigger happy are3holes in general, because, up until recently, 99% of them never get charged because all they ever have is an "internal investigation". Look what happened to the cop that choked Eric Garner.

I'm angry. This sh*t is going to get worse. It's starting to happen in Aus now.

And this has to stop.

Actually, I'm not angry, I'm fuming. This is a world my kids are growing up in.

And excuses like "sometimes they get it wrong" is a cop out, a lie, and a completely pathetic attitude to what's going on in the world.

Don't think I hate cops, I like a hell of a lot of them, and respect them, but I know, like anywhere, there's bad elements, from cops, defence, firies, ambulance, my work, your work, everywhere. But we can't stand by and say "it's a few bad apples" and let them get away with it.

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#1590546 12-Jul-2016 20:47

gzt: Training would help. It appears there are current proposals for better training:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/05/12/proposal-to-congress-would-require-police-to-get-de-escalation-training-create-national-use-of-force-standard

There are also severe structural problems where some police are just part of a fine collecting regime to fund local authorities. This was the case in Ferguson to a large extent.

I am 100% behind additional training. De-Escalation is a great skill to have.

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#1590597 12-Jul-2016 21:23

blakamin:

And none of that is what I was saying. Ever.

I'm saying "sometimes they get it wrong" is no excuse for 515 police shootings this year, or black people getting shot on a daily basis. It's not "sometimes they get it wrong", it's trigger happy racist ars3holes or just trigger happy are3holes in general, because, up until recently, 99% of them never get charged because all they ever have is an "internal investigation". Look what happened to the cop that choked Eric Garner.

I'm angry. This sh*t is going to get worse. It's starting to happen in Aus now.

And this has to stop.

Actually, I'm not angry, I'm fuming. This is a world my kids are growing up in.

And excuses like "sometimes they get it wrong" is a cop out, a lie, and a completely pathetic attitude to what's going on in the world.

Don't think I hate cops, I like a hell of a lot of them, and respect them, but I know, like anywhere, there's bad elements, from cops, defence, firies, ambulance, my work, your work, everywhere. But we can't stand by and say "it's a few bad apples" and let them get away with it.

You are obviously very upset, I can understand it, but I think your rage is misplaced. Perhaps for your kids sakes, worry about ALL the bad criminals, instead of worrying so much about the OCCASIONAL bad cop.

I think you will find 99% of cops (not being charged) is a gross misunderestimation. There is an entire department in the USA policing force who's job it is to discipline police officers.

You seem to be suggesting that 515 police shootings this year are all bad shoots? It's also worth reminding you that black being people shot is not automatically a cop doing the wrong thing.

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#1590614 12-Jul-2016 22:00

networkn:

blakamin:

And none of that is what I was saying. Ever.

I'm saying "sometimes they get it wrong" is no excuse for 515 police shootings this year, or black people getting shot on a daily basis. It's not "sometimes they get it wrong", it's trigger happy racist ars3holes or just trigger happy are3holes in general, because, up until recently, 99% of them never get charged because all they ever have is an "internal investigation". Look what happened to the cop that choked Eric Garner.

I'm angry. This sh*t is going to get worse. It's starting to happen in Aus now.

And this has to stop.

Actually, I'm not angry, I'm fuming. This is a world my kids are growing up in.

And excuses like "sometimes they get it wrong" is a cop out, a lie, and a completely pathetic attitude to what's going on in the world.

Don't think I hate cops, I like a hell of a lot of them, and respect them, but I know, like anywhere, there's bad elements, from cops, defence, firies, ambulance, my work, your work, everywhere. But we can't stand by and say "it's a few bad apples" and let them get away with it.

You are obviously very upset, I can understand it, but I think your rage is misplaced. Perhaps for your kids sakes, worry about ALL the bad criminals, instead of worrying so much about the OCCASIONAL bad cop.

I think you will find 99% of cops (not being charged) is a gross misunderestimation. There is an entire department in the USA policing force who's job it is to discipline police officers.

You seem to be suggesting that 515 police shootings this year are all bad shoots? It's also worth reminding you that black being people shot is not automatically a cop doing the wrong thing.

What I'm worried about is peoples attitudes. Like the crap graphic on the last page, with no source, that, when called out, the poster replied with "sometimes they get it wrong". I'm worried that the world is going down the toilet at a phenomenal rate. Here's another thing I'm worried about, my kids, like myself, aren't exactly ginger. Take that any way you like.

I'm over racism

I'm over violence

I'm over guns

I'm over anyone, criminal or police, getting away with murder.

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#1590616 12-Jul-2016 22:04

blakamin:

What I'm worried about is peoples attitudes. Like the crap graphic on the last page, with no source, that, when called out, the poster replied with "sometimes they get it wrong". I'm worried that the world is going down the toilet at a phenomenal rate. Here's another thing I'm worried about, my kids, like myself, aren't exactly ginger. Take that any way you like.

I'm over racism

I'm over violence

I'm over guns

I'm over anyone, criminal or police, getting away with murder.

I am wondering how many of the 515 Shootings you cited above, you believe constitute murder?

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#1590620 12-Jul-2016 22:09

networkn:

I am wondering how many of the 515 Shootings you cited above, you believe constitute murder?

If you want to keep going, read the links...

I'm out of here.

I wonder if cops start putting guns in the faces of people at traffic stops in NZ you'll start changing your mind... Probably not. You're not likely to ever get pulled over.

It won't matter by then anyway.

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#1590626 12-Jul-2016 22:18

blakamin:

networkn:

I am wondering how many of the 515 Shootings you cited above, you believe constitute murder?

If you want to keep going, read the links...

I'm out of here.

I wonder if cops start putting guns in the faces of people at traffic stops in NZ you'll start changing your mind... Probably not. You're not likely to ever get pulled over.

It won't matter by then anyway.

You should do a police ride along in the USA sometime, I believe you would have a different perspective afterward (or probably no actually). I know I did.

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#1590644 12-Jul-2016 22:28

Another one occurred a few days ago. Off duty officer. Witness statements said the victim was punching and the officer fired. A few days later there is video appearing to show a very different story:

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/07/11/nyregion/video-of-fatal-shooting-by-off-duty-officer-in-brooklyn-emerges.html

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#1590654 12-Jul-2016 22:57

blakamin:

networkn:

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you have genuinely misunderstood my point rather than twisted it to bait a response.

And none of that is what I was saying. Ever.

I'm saying "sometimes they get it wrong" is no excuse for 515 police shootings this year, or black people getting shot on a daily basis. It's not "sometimes they get it wrong", it's trigger happy racist ars3holes or just trigger happy are3holes in general, because, up until recently, 99% of them never get charged because all they ever have is an "internal investigation". Look what happened to the cop that choked Eric Garner.

I'm angry. This sh*t is going to get worse. It's starting to happen in Aus now.

And this has to stop.

Actually, I'm not angry, I'm fuming. This is a world my kids are growing up in.

And excuses like "sometimes they get it wrong" is a cop out, a lie, and a completely pathetic attitude to what's going on in the world.

Don't think I hate cops, I like a hell of a lot of them, and respect them, but I know, like anywhere, there's bad elements, from cops, defence, firies, ambulance, my work, your work, everywhere. But we can't stand by and say "it's a few bad apples" and let them get away with it.

What's a "firies"?

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