Viagogo fake tickets- advice needed

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#1968948 6-Mar-2018 14:28

cadman:

No worries, guys! The Comcom is onto it!

"Expert legal advice was being sought as to whether the commission had the power to enforce Kiwi consumer laws against Viagogo, which is based in Switzerland."

What a joke. They're only a marketplace and the NZ Commerce Commission has no teeth here, much less in Switzerland.

Again...

Similar result found last time. Same thing in AUS, they're trying but its an international they can't touch. Still no result.

Ironic. Google accc viagogo (the australian authority) first link, Viagogo NZTickets. https://www.accc.gov.au/media-release/accc-takes-ticket-reseller-viagogo-to-court

cadman

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#1968949 6-Mar-2018 14:28

MikeAqua:

sidefx:

MikeAqua:

I have given a few tickets away to friends when I couldn't use them.

You're a kind man.

I'm actually just lazy. Can't be bothered with he hassle of on-selling. I have the same attitude to for lower value second hand stuff. Easier and faster to give it away than sell it.

I'm like that - not so much lazy as the effort/reward ratio just doesn't stack up. I'm often astonished at the low value stuff people will go to the effort of listing to sell on TradeMe. Clearly their time is utterly worthless to them.

cadman

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#1968953 6-Mar-2018 14:33

Oblivian:

Again...

Similar result found last time. Same thing in AUS, they're trying but its an international they can't touch. Still no result.

Ironic. Google accc viagogo (the australian authority) first link, Viagogo NZTickets. https://www.accc.gov.au/media-release/accc-takes-ticket-reseller-viagogo-to-court

Seems to me the way to combat them is through the card issuers and consumers themselves. If many people did like I always do and screen video captured all ecommerce transactions, when something was dodgy like fees that aren't disclosed before the sale completes, the sheer number of subsequent chargebacks would have the card issuers looking to blacklist transactions with them based on the level of hassles they cause.

mattwnz

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#1968965 6-Mar-2018 14:52

Isn't there currently an internet filter in NZ run by a government agency?

Oblivian

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#1968967 6-Mar-2018 14:57

mattwnz:

Isn't there currently an internet filter in NZ run by a government agency?

Mmhmm. ACCC don't have the luxury but attempts to sway googles arm failed. Someone will find it anti competetive.

cadman

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#1970033 6-Mar-2018 17:20

Oblivian:

mattwnz:

Isn't there currently an internet filter in NZ run by a government agency?

Mmhmm. ACCC don't have the luxury but attempts to sway googles arm failed. Someone will find it anti competetive.

Google don't care about anti-competitive practices. Once they start their own ticket reselling division, Viagogo will be history!

mattwnz

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#1970103 6-Mar-2018 18:57

What I wonder when going to their website, is all the waiting it requires you to do. It initially makes you wait about a minute as a progress bar goes across the screen counting up to 100% as it searches for tickets. Then you get to the tickets page listing the available tickets, and they slowly start to disappear, saying' recently sold'. Then if you click on the ticket, it goes to another screen where you again have to wait ages, and I just gave up. Is it just a really slow website and really slow servers? The official ticket sellers website is so much faster.

Sharesies

Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

Oblivian

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#1973501 12-Mar-2018 19:32

More on FairGo tonight - just started on 1

Seems even the orchestra and opera isn't safe

Kyanar

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#1973596 12-Mar-2018 21:47

mattwnz:

What I wonder when going to their website, is all the waiting it requires you to do. It initially makes you wait about a minute as a progress bar goes across the screen counting up to 100% as it searches for tickets. Then you get to the tickets page listing the available tickets, and they slowly start to disappear, saying' recently sold'. Then if you click on the ticket, it goes to another screen where you again have to wait ages, and I just gave up. Is it just a really slow website and really slow servers? The official ticket sellers website is so much faster.

No. It's a deliberate tactic to create a false sense of urgency. By making you "queue" you get the impression that there are tons of other people looking at the same tickets as you, and when you start seeing "recently sold" you get the impression that lots of people are buying them, so you better get in quick. It's designed to override your rational thought and get you to buy quickly without actually thinking about it.

It should be illegal. In fact, it is illegal.

MikeAqua

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#1973831 13-Mar-2018 10:50

Kyanar:

No. It's a deliberate tactic to create a false sense of urgency. By making you "queue" you get the impression that there are tons of other people looking at the same tickets as you ...

It should be illegal. In fact, it is illegal.

Illegal where? Viagogo is overseas. Who has jurisdiction over their sales of tickets to NZ events?

By the way AirNZ do something similar to this. It looks like a flight is selling out but it's actually seats at that particular price point that are selling out.

Mike

Kyanar

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#1973841 13-Mar-2018 11:07

MikeAqua:

Illegal where? Viagogo is overseas. Who has jurisdiction over their sales of tickets to NZ events?

By the way AirNZ do something similar to this. It looks like a flight is selling out but it's actually seats at that particular price point that are selling out.

No, it's not even slightly similar. Airlines tell you the seats in the bucket that are actually selling out. Viagogo actually says tickets are sold when no sale occurred - it's a pre-programmed function of their website that displays a fixed number of sales per minute to make it appear the event is selling out but it's not.

Completely different. And illegal. Based on the successful ACCC prosecution of Valve, Viagogo is definitely in the firing line and both the ACCC and Commerce Commission have more than enough evidence of jurisdiction (e.g. the fact that Viagogo sells tickets in AUD and NZD to events in Australia and New Zealand, has registered Viagogo.com.au and Viagogo.co.nz in order to target Australians and New Zealanders specifically, and in Australia even has assets including a trademark registration for "VIAGOGO" as it's required to be eligible to register a .au domain).

So, who has jurisdiction? That's relatively obvious.

Oblivian

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#1973883 13-Mar-2018 11:27

Think you'll actually find there's some difficulty over what you think may be straight forward illegal act able to be stamped out. Similarly why the 3+ investigations kicked off so far against this one company and various others are basically that. Investigations. 'yes, it's kinda naughty' outcomes and nothing more to prosecute - comes down to the FTA that offers NZ Citizens protection. Which only extends so far from our own borders regardless of NZ$ and so on.

https://www.consumer.org.nz/articles/fair-trading-act

The Act applies to all traders who operate in New Zealand, including organisations based overseas that advertise here.

But enforcing the Act could be difficult with a company that has no physical presence or representatives here. It can be very difficult to prosecute or get redress from rogue traders not living in New Zealand.

Expert legal advice was being sought as to whether the commission had the power to enforce Kiwi consumer laws against Viagogo, which is based in Switzerland.

The bankroll for that will only stretch so far.

MikeAqua

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#1973905 13-Mar-2018 11:55

Kyanar:

No, it's not even slightly similar. Airlines tell you the seats in the bucket that are actually selling out. Viagogo actually says tickets are sold when no sale occurred - it's a pre-programmed function of their website that displays a fixed number of sales per minute to make it appear the event is selling out but it's not.

While you are correct that AirNZ are referring to genuine sales, they do create a false sense of urgency as often the flight isn't selling out, just a fare category. The next category could be only marginally more expensive.

The text used for example is "Flight selling out, fewer than x seats left at these prices"

While it's not dishonest and I don't put them in the same category as ViaGoGo it's misleading ...

Mike

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#1973918 13-Mar-2018 12:29

mattwnz:

Isn't there currently an internet filter in NZ run by a government agency?

Yes, it's the Digital Child Exploitation Filtering System. https://internetnz.nz/ispreview/digital-child-exploitation-filter

The few ISPs that do use it (Spark, Vodafone and Compass) would bail if it was expanded to include other sites. It's probably only a matter of time before we have a court enforced site banning policy, like many other countries (including Australia) have in place.

Oblivian

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#1979881 19-Mar-2018 14:28

Ding Ding https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/sport/102394783/fraudulent-viagogo-ticket-holders-turned-away-from-highlanders-v-crusaders-clash

This is where the reselling becomes a hard area, not illegal. Nothing being done to stop it (hello cigarette tax) other than major events bill, yet breaches some ticket sellers terms to onsell them. Be nice if they would all follow suit and just hit the guys onselling for profit in the pocket. But I don't see it happening when the other ticket sellers have their own re-issue capabilities.

Tickets will be void if on-sold or traded at a premium or in conjunction with other goods or services, or used in advertising or as a competition prize, without written permission from TicketDirect/Ticket Rocket. In the event of a breach of this condition, the ticket holder will be denied admission or expelled and, on request, the ticket will be delivered up to TicketDirect/Ticket Rocket.

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