@Geektastic ever tried re charging flat coke in your Sodastream? you should it's fun 

MikeAqua:

 

But I agree there are a lot of catergories where you simply can't avoid it.

 

Give me a disposable packaging example where plastic cannot be avoided?

Lastman:

Another possible solution, having previously bagged burning, is the commercial, filtered incinerators European style, say one for Auckland putting the energy back into the grid? Not sure how clean they have proven to be.

Filtered incineration still requires disposal of hazardous chemicals.

Plasma incineration, OTOH, breaks down everything to its elemental compounds, including ewaste, hazardous chemical waste, etc

https://www.stuffyoushouldknow.com/podcasts/please-listen-to-how-plasma-waste-converters-work.htm

And, from http://plasmawastedisposal.com/

MikeB4:

@Geektastic ever tried re charging flat coke in your Sodastream? you should it's fun 

Geektastic:

MikeB4:

 

@Geektastic ever tried re charging flat coke in your Sodastream? you should it's fun 

 

Yeah....... Nah!

I had a moment of madness  a few years back and tried it, the mess was impressive 

I don't think there is a problem with plastic. As Fred99 points out, the alternatives have a bigger impact on the environment. The problem is most plastics are not bio-degradable.  The compulsory use of Oxo-biodegradable plastics would solve the 'liter' & 'ocean' problems. They cost similar to standard plastics and are compatible with existing machinery.  Unfortunately, greenies tend to hate bio-degradable plastics because they are not compostable.  As such, I expect there will be no change in the future (except the banning of light weight plastic bags).

There are two distinct types of biodegradable plastic. They are:

 :“Compostable” - (also loosely known as “bio-based plastics” or “bioplastics”) and designed according to EN13432 or ASTM D6400 to biodegrade in the
special conditions found in industrial composting or anaerobic digestion, and

: Oxo-biodegradable - made from polymers such as PE and PP, containing extra ingredients (which do not include “heavy-metals”) designed according
to ASTM D6954 or BS8472 to degrade and biodegrade in the open environment leaving no harmful residues.

Fred99:

Lastman:

Fred99:

- Paper – tends to be similar from CO2 perspective, but would use 43 times to be even on all environmental factors;

The second statistic, I think that’s hot air out someones backside.

And that probably summarises the problem best.

An uninformed "throwaway" one line comment on a forum is used to discredit scientific research.

 

dafman:

 

MikeAqua:

 

But I agree there are a lot of catergories where you simply can't avoid it.

 

 

Give me a disposable packaging example where plastic cannot be avoided?

 

Bleach. Cheese. Shampoo.  Yoghurt. Cereal. 

Note I said "simply" can't avoid.

MikeB4:

 

Geektastic:

MikeB4:

 

@Geektastic ever tried re charging flat coke in your Sodastream? you should it's fun 

 

Yeah....... Nah!

 

 

 

I had a moment of madness  a few years back and tried it, the mess was impressive 

 

We had someone stay in our house while we were away for a weekend once, and they obviously tried it.

There was evidence. Sticky evidence.

Cheese wrapped and sealed in wax paper, cereal in a box (it used to be like this way back when) or you could put a wax paper bag inside the box as an option.

Yoghurt and bleach more difficult. However, where plastic cannot be avoided 'easily', legislation could mandate that a single type of recyclable plastic be used (not the proliferation of plastics types we have at present), with the manufacturers of plastic packaging bearing the cost of providing recycling bins at point of sale as well as the cost of removal and recycling.

Also, options for minimising plastic could be investigated. Shampoo could be sold in refill pouches, and/or minimum sizes introduced.

Plastic Roads?

dafman:

 

Cheese wrapped and sealed in wax paper, cereal in a box (it used to be like this way back when) or you could put a wax paper bag inside the box as an option.

 

If you are saying manufacturers could do those things I agree.  But they don't.  Cereal is in a plastic bag inside the box.  Cheese comes in plastic.

My comment was from a consumer perspective - i.e. choice available to consumers.  But I can see I didn't make that very clear.

I did the countdown 'bag for life' exchange thing today.  Its a smaller bag they issue back in return.

If new world are doing paper in the fruit and veg dept, then that is good as that is genuinely single-use plastic.

I asked the local butcher yesterday and they're happy to put meat in Sistema boxes/etc if I bring them in.  There's one customer they already do that for.

But the supermarket model of lots of things on shelves in long-lasting individual packaging isn't compatible with "bring your own box."

The single use plastic thing is just a complete disaster.  The "biodegradable" bags don't biodegrade if you bury them.  My re-usable supermarket bags are chock full of plastic bags.  If you get those double packs of Griffins Chocolate Chippies, you get two plastic trays, individually wrapped, with a third bag encircling the lot!

As a previous poster mentioned - we need legislation requiring people who sell this stuff to take responsibility for recycling it.  Push the cost into the supply chain and watch the problem disappear overnight!

deadlyllama:

 

My re-usable supermarket bags are chock full of plastic bags.  If you get those double packs of Griffins Chocolate Chippies, you get two plastic trays, individually wrapped, with a third bag encircling the lot!

 

A lot of these 'soft plastics' are now recyclable at the supermarket.  But it would be better to eliminate them.