New Zealand Government to declare a climate emergency

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#2612414 28-Nov-2020 17:46

Geektastic:

It’s less... virtuous to do those things. Not so many good world headlines or credit for future UN sinecures. He said, cynically.

Housing and jobs would be great. We can start be demolishing housing near the coast, that's great for jobs.

Do you believe that the climate change issue we have now is anthropogenic? Or is it a case of not my problem?

Rikkitic

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#2612421 28-Nov-2020 18:03

This is a silly tangent that distracts from the real issue and undermines this thread.

Here is the real issue: An out of control truck is thundering down on a group of children. You may or may not have a child of your own in that group. You can change the direction of the truck and spare the children if you throw your incredibly expensive and impossible to replace surfboard that you love more than anything in the world under the wheels of the truck. You don't know where the truck came from, or whose fault it is. You have nothing to do with the union labour that built such a faulty truck. It is not your responsibility that the truck was allowed on the roads because the bureaucrat in charge of truck safety is a socialist brother-in-law of the Minister of Transport. What do you do?

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tdgeek

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#2612424 28-Nov-2020 18:11

Rikkitic:

This is a silly tangent that distracts from the real issue and undermines this thread.

Here is the real issue: An out of control truck is thundering down on a group of children. You may or may not have a child of your own in that group. You can change the direction of the truck and spare the children if you throw your incredibly expensive and impossible to replace surfboard that you love more than anything in the world under the wheels of the truck. You don't know where the truck came from, or whose fault it is. You have nothing to do with the union labour that built such a faulty truck. It is not your responsibility that the truck was allowed on the roads because the bureaucrat in charge of truck safety is a socialist brother-in-law of the Minister of Transport. What do you do?

Save the children.

As you know, its not a silly tangent :-) Its about will you do the right and animal instinct thing, or will you be NIMBY? Or IABIDWITAM

(I Agree But I don't Want It to Affect Me) Or I believe in Climate Change but dont tax me

tdgeek

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#2612427 28-Nov-2020 18:16

On that, what is the issue with political will? Its that there is no Govt will as you will be voted out, I agree. But its not political will, as the Govt is just 61+ people. The will is ours, 5 million of us. Why a Govt may not bring in climate change measures is because there is no public will. Im sure the vast majority of the public know that climate change is human caused, and they want it fixed. But not if my tax goes up 3% or if my next house I build must be 160 sqm or less.

Its the peoples will dont blame any Govt

MikeB4

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#2612432 28-Nov-2020 18:36

It means squat if people believe climate change is a natural event, man made or caused by the Cookie Monster it is happening and if we don’t pull finger and take urgent mitigation action it is going to be one giant cluster pluck that is going to impact every one.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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#2612522 29-Nov-2020 08:39

tdgeek:
Geektastic:

It’s less... virtuous to do those things. Not so many good world headlines or credit for future UN sinecures. He said, cynically.

Housing and jobs would be great. We can start be demolishing housing near the coast, that's great for jobs.

Do you believe that the climate change issue we have now is anthropogenic? Or is it a case of not my problem?

I don’t really regard it as a problem. Impoverishing ourselves or making life difficult for ourselves just so some people maybe perhaps might not have a problem which may or may not actually happen when NZ is such a minuscule contributor to the problem doesn’t seem helpful to anyone.
NZ already struggles to pay for infrastructure - most of our water infrastructure is decades overdue for replacement, rail is a joke and roads not great either.
We have a great deal to be getting on with first, in my view.

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Rikkitic

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#2612529 29-Nov-2020 09:15

Geektastic:

I don’t really regard it as a problem. Impoverishing ourselves or making life difficult for ourselves just so some people maybe perhaps might not have a problem which may or may not actually happen when NZ is such a minuscule contributor to the problem doesn’t seem helpful to anyone.
NZ already struggles to pay for infrastructure - most of our water infrastructure is decades overdue for replacement, rail is a joke and roads not great either.
We have a great deal to be getting on with first, in my view.

Your problem is that you don't think there is a problem. Nearly every reputable climate scientist in the world disagrees. Climate-related events are now occurring that were predicted a decade or more ago, except they are happening sooner and more intensely than was expected.

Our rail wouldn't be a joke if successive governments had not been so car-obsessed. It can be an important part of the solution. So can the efforts now underway to work with farmers towards better agricultural practices. Roads are necessary and should be improved as needed, but not if the goal is just to attract more cars.

Like others who want to pretend climate change is not an issue, you want to just carry on doing more of the same. Heaven forbid you might actually have to compromise or - shudder - make a sacrifice.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

tdgeek

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#2612540 29-Nov-2020 09:37

Geektastic:

I don’t really regard it as a problem. Impoverishing ourselves or making life difficult for ourselves just so some people maybe perhaps might not have a problem which may or may not actually happen when NZ is such a minuscule contributor to the problem doesn’t seem helpful to anyone.
NZ already struggles to pay for infrastructure - most of our water infrastructure is decades overdue for replacement, rail is a joke and roads not great either.
We have a great deal to be getting on with first, in my view.

Yeah, while your at it, lets mine coal from our native land and use that for energy.....

tdgeek

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#2612541 29-Nov-2020 09:38

Rikkitic:

Your problem is that you don't think there is a problem. Nearly every reputable climate scientist in the world disagrees. Climate-related events are now occurring that were predicted a decade or more ago, except they are happening sooner and more intensely than was expected.

Our rail wouldn't be a joke if successive governments had not been so car-obsessed. It can be an important part of the solution. So can the efforts now underway to work with farmers towards better agricultural practices. Roads are necessary and should be improved as needed, but not if the goal is just to attract more cars.

Like others who want to pretend climate change is not an issue, you want to just carry on doing more of the same. Heaven forbid you might actually have to compromise or - shudder - make a sacrifice.

He knows its a problem, But selfish is cheaper

tdgeek

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#2612543 29-Nov-2020 09:41

MikeB4:

It means squat if people believe climate change is a natural event, man made or caused by the Cookie Monster it is happening and if we don’t pull finger and take urgent mitigation action it is going to be one giant cluster pluck that is going to impact every one.

Exactly, and it wont happen. Like some people that post here, rather do other stuff. Plus lets watch our balance sheets, and beer money. As someone here posted, the globe will go green one day, but not because of climate change, but because of the cost of oil. Same old thing, money.

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#2612566 29-Nov-2020 10:39

Geektastic: I don’t really regard it as a problem. Impoverishing ourselves or making life difficult for ourselves just so some people maybe perhaps might not have a problem which may or may not actually happen when NZ is such a minuscule contributor to the problem doesn’t seem helpful to anyone.

It's pretty clear even conservative predictions for sea level rise are going to have a large impact in NZ. Add to that impacts on sea temperature and marine life and agricultural ecology. It is vitally important that NZ is part of a coordinated international effort to sort this out.

In part this involves diplomacy influencing other nations and engaging in and supporting urgent technical and scientific development. It's not all about simply reducing stuff as some people seem to think.

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#2612567 29-Nov-2020 10:39

Rikkitic:

This is a silly tangent that distracts from the real issue and undermines this thread.

Here is the real issue: Modelling has predicted An out of control truck ismay thunder~~ing~~ down on a group of children based on traffic sampling. You may or may not have a child of your own in that group. You ~~can~~ might change the direction of the truck and spare the children if you throw your incredibly expensive and impossible to replace surfboard that you love more than anything in the world into the road in the hope it will go under the wheels of the truck. Trucks have been thundering down this road at times for what seems like forever and it seems like there are more than you can ever remember. You don't know where the truck came from, or whose fault it is but you believe it has everything to do with the over inflated tyres which have been proven to make such vehicles difficult to control. You have nothing to do with the union labour that built such a faulty truck. It is not your responsibility that the truck was allowed on the roads because the bureaucrat in charge of truck safety is a socialist brother-in-law of the Minister of Transport. What do you do? And why are the children in the middle of the road in the first place?

I like your analogy. However, I have amended it to more accurately reflect the position we find ourselves in.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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#2612637 29-Nov-2020 12:52

gzt:
Geektastic: I don’t really regard it as a problem. Impoverishing ourselves or making life difficult for ourselves just so some people maybe perhaps might not have a problem which may or may not actually happen when NZ is such a minuscule contributor to the problem doesn’t seem helpful to anyone.

It's pretty clear even conservative predictions for sea level rise are going to have a large impact in NZ. Add to that impacts on sea temperature and marine life and agricultural ecology. It is vitally important that NZ is part of a coordinated international effort to sort this out.

In part this involves diplomacy influencing other nations and engaging in and supporting urgent technical and scientific development. It's not all about simply reducing stuff as some people seem to think.

It certainly isn’t “vitally” important.

Nobody will really notice whether NZ is there or not much as we like to think otherwise.

We should be involved, certainly. However nobody should kid themselves that our contribution will be “vital”.

Geektastic

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#2612638 29-Nov-2020 12:55

tdgeek:
Geektastic:

I don’t really regard it as a problem. Impoverishing ourselves or making life difficult for ourselves just so some people maybe perhaps might not have a problem which may or may not actually happen when NZ is such a minuscule contributor to the problem doesn’t seem helpful to anyone.
NZ already struggles to pay for infrastructure - most of our water infrastructure is decades overdue for replacement, rail is a joke and roads not great either.
We have a great deal to be getting on with first, in my view.

Yeah, while your at it, lets mine coal from our native land and use that for energy.....

If you want. That’s almost what Germany had to do when it banned nuclear - it started buying Russian gas instead.

Nuclear is a better option as someone said above. Especially for such a small population.

tdgeek

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#2612642 29-Nov-2020 13:17

Geektastic:

We should be involved, certainly. However nobody should kid themselves that our contribution will be “vital”.

One Kiwi's effect on the problem, is about the same as one Canadian or one American or one German. So, our contribution is as vital as anyone elses.

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