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Journeyman
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  #3029770 30-Jan-2023 19:46
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neb:

 

 Yup. If you look at the quote from the earlier article:

In defending his role in delay, Brown has said he had to let the bureaucracy do its job and follow the correct process: “The state of emergency is a prescribed process. It’s quite formal. I had to wait until I had the official request from the emergency management centre”.
Yeah, because in an emergency, defn: "a serious, unexpected, and often dangerous situation requiring immediate action" the appropriate response is to sit back and let things run their course while watching from the sidelines.

 

My understanding of a state of emergency is based on this quote from an RNZ article someone else linked to:

 

Waikato University Law Professor Al Gillespie said states of emergency were declared when normal emergency services could not, or were at risk, of being overwhelmed.

 

Surely that means that Brown relies on the advice from the people in charge of the emergency services, for example Ron Devlin of Fire and Emergency which is who Brown referred the question to when asked if he declared a state of emergency at the right time. So Brown relies on FENZ to know when they need a state of emergency declared (because they need the resources that declaration gives them). Should Brown decide he knows better than FENZ and pre-empt their advice as to when they need an emergency declaration? 

 

This is a question open for anyone, not aimed specifically at the people I've quoted.




ezbee
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  #3029788 30-Jan-2023 21:32
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Gerry Brownlee has really laid into Mr Brown.
Not pulling any punches.

 

National Party MP Gerry Brownlee scathing of Auckland mayor Wayne Brown
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/131103365/national-party-mp-gerry-brownlee-scathing-of-auckland-mayor-wayne-brown

 

 




Ge0rge
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  #3029831 31-Jan-2023 08:17
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Some "mate" for leaking that.

Handsomedan
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  #3029833 31-Jan-2023 08:31
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Soo...for those of us that spent the weekend helping friends and neighbours to clean up, rip up carpets and dig silt out of people's homes, how about we stop and think about the topic on hand? 

 

Politics and attacks on politicians have NOTHING to do with this topic and it's ridiculous to carry on about it, like anyone cold have changed the outcome of the cascading waterfalls in lounges, destroyed property and shattered lives. 

 

What I saw this weekend was people at every level helping out, being awesome and supporting their fellow humans. Armies of volunteers helping complete strangers. People who were also affected themselves! 

 

Let's leave  the political bulls*t in the politics threads. 

 

 

 

 





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GV27
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  #3029839 31-Jan-2023 08:50
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Handsomedan:

 

Politics and attacks on politicians have NOTHING to do with this topic and it's ridiculous to carry on about it, like anyone cold have changed the outcome of the cascading waterfalls in lounges, destroyed property and shattered lives. 

 

 

Sorry, that's not how emergency management works. It's not inherently political, but when it fails it's a discussion that needs to be frank and direct.

 

I was on Don Buck Road on Friday, I got turned around at the bottom of the hill. If I'd been about two or three cars further down, I would have been able to see what was going on, but it was the only way I would have known. I had no idea what the problem was until I got home 90 minutes later and saw the extent of the flooding around Universal Drive and other people's photos. 

Had I known that there was going to be even more rain and further massive downpours, I would have left my son at his grandparents overnight and gone straight home. I couldn't have been much closer to the action in West Auckland, but I got no warning, no alerts, no tweets from Auckland CDEM (I have notifications on for that account). At this point, the flood waters had been going through the area for at least an hour.

 

I'm sorry the mayor's tennis game was interrupted by 'media drongos', but I probably put my son in danger that neither of us needed to be in at all because officials and people elected to lead chose not to do their jobs. I make no apologies for being deeply unimpressed by that. 


 
 
 
 

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johno1234
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  #3029857 31-Jan-2023 09:39
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GV27:

 

Handsomedan:

 

Politics and attacks on politicians have NOTHING to do with this topic and it's ridiculous to carry on about it, like anyone cold have changed the outcome of the cascading waterfalls in lounges, destroyed property and shattered lives. 

 

 

Sorry, that's not how emergency management works. It's not inherently political, but when it fails it's a discussion that needs to be frank and direct.

 

I was on Don Buck Road on Friday, I got turned around at the bottom of the hill. If I'd been about two or three cars further down, I would have been able to see what was going on, but it was the only way I would have known. I had no idea what the problem was until I got home 90 minutes later and saw the extent of the flooding around Universal Drive and other people's photos. 

Had I known that there was going to be even more rain and further massive downpours, I would have left my son at his grandparents overnight and gone straight home. I couldn't have been much closer to the action in West Auckland, but I got no warning, no alerts, no tweets from Auckland CDEM (I have notifications on for that account). At this point, the flood waters had been going through the area for at least an hour.

 

I'm sorry the mayor's tennis game was interrupted by 'media drongos', but I probably put my son in danger that neither of us needed to be in at all because officials and people elected to lead chose not to do their jobs. I make no apologies for being deeply unimpressed by that. 

 

 

The mayor is a figurehead and carries the can for the organisation. He himself is not the actual machine that is supposed to be issuing the comms.

 

Same issue with the Coromandel Peninsula floods and slips after New Year. NZTA website, supposedly the source of truth for road safety and closures was absolutely useless. The only way to tell if a road was open or safe was to try it out or look at the Coromandel Roads facebook page - kept up to date by the FB community.


Handsomedan
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  #3029858 31-Jan-2023 09:40
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GV27:

 

Handsomedan:

 

Politics and attacks on politicians have NOTHING to do with this topic and it's ridiculous to carry on about it, like anyone cold have changed the outcome of the cascading waterfalls in lounges, destroyed property and shattered lives. 

 

 

Sorry, that's not how emergency management works. It's not inherently political, but when it fails it's a discussion that needs to be frank and direct.

 

I was on Don Buck Road on Friday, I got turned around at the bottom of the hill. If I'd been about two or three cars further down, I would have been able to see what was going on, but it was the only way I would have known. I had no idea what the problem was until I got home 90 minutes later and saw the extent of the flooding around Universal Drive and other people's photos. 

Had I known that there was going to be even more rain and further massive downpours, I would have left my son at his grandparents overnight and gone straight home. I couldn't have been much closer to the action in West Auckland, but I got no warning, no alerts, no tweets from Auckland CDEM (I have notifications on for that account). At this point, the flood waters had been going through the area for at least an hour.

 

I'm sorry the mayor's tennis game was interrupted by 'media drongos', but I probably put my son in danger that neither of us needed to be in at all because officials and people elected to lead chose not to do their jobs. I make no apologies for being deeply unimpressed by that. 

 

 

I spent all of Saturday helping friends clean up their heavily affected home - waist high muddy water in some places through the house. 

 

It was a mess. So many of their life-possessions destroyed and all their living and kitchen and dining furniture in a skip now. 

 

Not once did I hear them complain about the mayor. 

 

Maybe in a few weeks they might when they've had time to think about it, but to be honest, their issues had nothing at all to do with politics or politicians. They all had to do with a flood that nobody thought would be as bad as it was. That water rose so quickly it caught people out. Again - nothing to do with politics. 





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Handsome Dan does not currently have a side hustle as the mascot for Yale 

 

 

 

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wratterus
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  #3029887 31-Jan-2023 10:32
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It seems there always has to be someone for the media to blame. Wish they'd focus on actually being helpful and getting proper information out quickly. Seems like that's far too much to expect from any major NZ media outlet unfortunately. 

 

Sometimes there is just a freak event.... stuff happens. None of the forecasts I saw predicted that amount of rain. Not much is going to help when you get nearly 70mm in a hour, that's unprecedented. 

 

Edit - sorry that really is a political comment too. 

 

Really feel for those affected. We had some bad flooding in Nelson recently, but nothing on this scale. 

 

 


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  #3029893 31-Jan-2023 10:46
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Cant blame the mayor for poor stormwater planning 40 years ago. But his response to things not been encouraging. 

 

 





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GV27
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  #3029894 31-Jan-2023 10:51
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johno1234:

 

The mayor is a figurehead and carries the can for the organisation. He himself is not the actual machine that is supposed to be issuing the comms.

 

 

Yet almost all the Auckland MPs, Labour, National etc, were, and many including Councillors were either doing the same or on the ground in the affected areas. Actual leadership isn't just sitting back and being told things, it's being a visible presence and getting messages out to people who need them.

 

I would have thought, if you were actually 'carrying the can' for the organisation, being seen to be doing something as opposed to total radio silence is probably what you should be doing. 

 

As for the people who lost everything: in the fullness of time, they may well have opinions about why they weren't told what and when. It would appear they quite rightly have bigger concerns. Being able to sit back and criticise the garbage comms around this emergency is a luxury I have that others do not at this point in time. That doesn't mean I can't do it. 


 
 
 

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johno1234
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  #3029903 31-Jan-2023 11:05
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GV27:

 

johno1234:

 

The mayor is a figurehead and carries the can for the organisation. He himself is not the actual machine that is supposed to be issuing the comms.

 

 

Yet almost all the Auckland MPs, Labour, National etc, were, and many including Councillors were either doing the same or on the ground in the affected areas. Actual leadership isn't just sitting back and being told things, it's being a visible presence and getting messages out to people who need them.

 

I would have thought, if you were actually 'carrying the can' for the organisation, being seen to be doing something as opposed to total radio silence is probably what you should be doing. 

 

As for the people who lost everything: in the fullness of time, they may well have opinions about why they weren't told what and when. It would appear they quite rightly have bigger concerns. Being able to sit back and criticise the garbage comms around this emergency is a luxury I have that others do not at this point in time. That doesn't mean I can't do it. 

 

 

All the above is true. However whether the mayor got out amongst it or played tennis would have zero effect on the person with the flooded house. You'd think the opposite based on some media comments.

 

 


GV27
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  #3029907 31-Jan-2023 11:27
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johno1234:

 

All the above is true. However whether the mayor got out amongst it or played tennis would have zero effect on the person with the flooded house. You'd think the opposite based on some media comments.

 

 

No, but it may have had some impact on the people on the roads, going to concerts, who could have left work early or hunkered down to see out the worst of it - had a decision been made when we already had whole streets underwater, motorways flooded and so on.


GV27
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  #3029926 31-Jan-2023 12:36
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As an aside, does anyone know where I can find the current Harbour Bridge wind-speed? I've got staff that I don't want stranded here and am looking to send home early if needed. 


johno1234
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  #3029931 31-Jan-2023 12:43
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GV27:

 

As an aside, does anyone know where I can find the current Harbour Bridge wind-speed? I've got staff that I don't want stranded here and am looking to send home early if needed. 

 

 

There's one at Northcote Point:

 

https://www.windfinder.com/report/northcote-point

 

 


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