IN or OUT? All on in the UK for the next 10 weeks.

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MikeB4
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#1560501 27-May-2016 09:57

DaveB:

Geektastic:

MikeB4: @Geektastic after many weeks of campaigning in the UK what is your gut feeling as to what way the vote will go. Many of my family in the UK are very unsure but believe the stay vote will prevail. Your feelings?

I'll be honest and say I think it will be close, but they will stay in.

In many ways the worst possible result is the fact that it will be close whichever way it goes, as it means that a huge percentage of the population will be unhappy, which is not a recipe for tranquility.

I think Cameron's so-called "renegotiation" was as much use as a chocolate fireguard and he got nothing substantive that can't be got out of later if the Commissariat in Brussels decide to forget they ever said it. I just think that most people will go with the status quo, quelled into submission by the Project Fear because all they really care about is what time the pubs are open, whether you can get cheap fags in France and whether their 2 weeks in Benidorm with Madge & Mel Harvey will still be nice and cheap.

Cynical? Yup.

One possible danger with a vote to stay in, will likely be further racial disharmony. The immigration issue has already become a racial/cultural/religious issue in Britain and I fear it will become worse and more prevalent for many years if they stay in the EU.

I can never fathom the logic of that, a mix of cultures etc is awesome.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

DaveB

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#1564577 2-Jun-2016 20:53

MikeB4:

DaveB:

Geektastic:

MikeB4: @Geektastic after many weeks of campaigning in the UK what is your gut feeling as to what way the vote will go. Many of my family in the UK are very unsure but believe the stay vote will prevail. Your feelings?

I'll be honest and say I think it will be close, but they will stay in.

In many ways the worst possible result is the fact that it will be close whichever way it goes, as it means that a huge percentage of the population will be unhappy, which is not a recipe for tranquility.

I think Cameron's so-called "renegotiation" was as much use as a chocolate fireguard and he got nothing substantive that can't be got out of later if the Commissariat in Brussels decide to forget they ever said it. I just think that most people will go with the status quo, quelled into submission by the Project Fear because all they really care about is what time the pubs are open, whether you can get cheap fags in France and whether their 2 weeks in Benidorm with Madge & Mel Harvey will still be nice and cheap.

Cynical? Yup.

One possible danger with a vote to stay in, will likely be further racial disharmony. The immigration issue has already become a racial/cultural/religious issue in Britain and I fear it will become worse and more prevalent for many years if they stay in the EU.

I can never fathom the logic of that, a mix of cultures etc is awesome.

As I have said before, you need to live there to understand. Try THIS for instance. How would you feel if THIS was affecting your way, or your kids or grand kids potential way of life in NZ?

How would the average Kiwi feel? Would we keep on burying our heads in the sand (as we can be so good at doing) and say it wont happen here? Are we safer because Australia has some balls and says "a mix of cultures is not awesome" unless it is managed?

nathan

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#1564596 2-Jun-2016 21:02

We are extremely lucky to have a massive ocean border

Can't see how the immigration thing is going to end well in Europe

Dalai Lama comments say it all.

gzt

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#1564603 2-Jun-2016 21:09

DaveB:
MikeB4:

DaveB:

Geektastic:

MikeB4: @Geektastic after many weeks of campaigning in the UK what is your gut feeling as to what way the vote will go. Many of my family in the UK are very unsure but believe the stay vote will prevail. Your feelings?

I'll be honest and say I think it will be close, but they will stay in.

In many ways the worst possible result is the fact that it will be close whichever way it goes, as it means that a huge percentage of the population will be unhappy, which is not a recipe for tranquility.

I think Cameron's so-called "renegotiation" was as much use as a chocolate fireguard and he got nothing substantive that can't be got out of later if the Commissariat in Brussels decide to forget they ever said it. I just think that most people will go with the status quo, quelled into submission by the Project Fear because all they really care about is what time the pubs are open, whether you can get cheap fags in France and whether their 2 weeks in Benidorm with Madge & Mel Harvey will still be nice and cheap.

Cynical? Yup.

One possible danger with a vote to stay in, will likely be further racial disharmony. The immigration issue has already become a racial/cultural/religious issue in Britain and I fear it will become worse and more prevalent for many years if they stay in the EU.

I can never fathom the logic of that, a mix of cultures etc is awesome.

As I have said before, you need to live there to understand. Try THIS for instance. How would you feel if THIS was affecting your way, or your kids or grand kids potential way of life in NZ?

How would the average Kiwi feel? Would we keep on burying our heads in the sand (as we can be so good at doing) and say it wont happen here? Are we safer because Australia has some balls and says "a mix of cultures is not awesome" unless it is managed?

The links you provided are a bit unclear the exact problem being referred to.

It looks like it might be that UK has no eurolegal authority to prevent entry of European citizens.

Pretty much similar to having no legal authority to prevent entry of a UK citizen into the UK. Ie; it is a common border policy with Europe.

Geektastic

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#1564876 3-Jun-2016 10:43

MikeB4:

DaveB:

Geektastic:

MikeB4: @Geektastic after many weeks of campaigning in the UK what is your gut feeling as to what way the vote will go. Many of my family in the UK are very unsure but believe the stay vote will prevail. Your feelings?

I'll be honest and say I think it will be close, but they will stay in.

In many ways the worst possible result is the fact that it will be close whichever way it goes, as it means that a huge percentage of the population will be unhappy, which is not a recipe for tranquility.

I think Cameron's so-called "renegotiation" was as much use as a chocolate fireguard and he got nothing substantive that can't be got out of later if the Commissariat in Brussels decide to forget they ever said it. I just think that most people will go with the status quo, quelled into submission by the Project Fear because all they really care about is what time the pubs are open, whether you can get cheap fags in France and whether their 2 weeks in Benidorm with Madge & Mel Harvey will still be nice and cheap.

Cynical? Yup.

One possible danger with a vote to stay in, will likely be further racial disharmony. The immigration issue has already become a racial/cultural/religious issue in Britain and I fear it will become worse and more prevalent for many years if they stay in the EU.

I can never fathom the logic of that, a mix of cultures etc is awesome.

It CAN be awesome - it is not AUTOMATICALLY awesome.

For example, if we were to suddenly find ourselves in a position where our population became 25% muslim in a matter of years, with no way to stop it, and the vociferous minority began to change food choices at schools, what shops could and could not trade in certain areas, running special extra-legal courts with their own laws and so on and so forth, would we here in NZ think that was awesome?

I suspect not.

MikeB4

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#1564890 3-Jun-2016 10:48

Geektastic:

It CAN be awesome - it is not AUTOMATICALLY awesome.

For example, if we were to suddenly find ourselves in a position where our population became 25% muslim in a matter of years, with no way to stop it, and the vociferous minority began to change food choices at schools, what shops could and could not trade in certain areas, running special extra-legal courts with their own laws and so on and so forth, would we here in NZ think that was awesome?

I suspect not.

Agreed and what you are describing is not cultural mixing but cultural dominating and that is not good in any sense. If that is what is happening in the UK then I understand the trepidation, change will need to come from all quarters.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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MikeB4

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#1564892 3-Jun-2016 10:52

I see as of 30/52016 the polls have Stay 46%, Leave 43% and undecided 12%. Still very close

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

SJB

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#1564906 3-Jun-2016 11:03

The poll of polls I looked at today had them even at 41%.

MikeB4

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#1564910 3-Jun-2016 11:08

I was quoting the Financial Times summary of polls poll umm thingy hmmm.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Kiwifruta

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#1564922 3-Jun-2016 11:25

Geektastic:
MikeB4:

DaveB:

Geektastic:

MikeB4: @Geektastic after many weeks of campaigning in the UK what is your gut feeling as to what way the vote will go. Many of my family in the UK are very unsure but believe the stay vote will prevail. Your feelings?

I'll be honest and say I think it will be close, but they will stay in.

In many ways the worst possible result is the fact that it will be close whichever way it goes, as it means that a huge percentage of the population will be unhappy, which is not a recipe for tranquility.

I think Cameron's so-called "renegotiation" was as much use as a chocolate fireguard and he got nothing substantive that can't be got out of later if the Commissariat in Brussels decide to forget they ever said it. I just think that most people will go with the status quo, quelled into submission by the Project Fear because all they really care about is what time the pubs are open, whether you can get cheap fags in France and whether their 2 weeks in Benidorm with Madge & Mel Harvey will still be nice and cheap.

Cynical? Yup.

One possible danger with a vote to stay in, will likely be further racial disharmony. The immigration issue has already become a racial/cultural/religious issue in Britain and I fear it will become worse and more prevalent for many years if they stay in the EU.

I can never fathom the logic of that, a mix of cultures etc is awesome.

It CAN be awesome - it is not AUTOMATICALLY awesome.

For example, if we were to suddenly find ourselves in a position where our population became 25% muslim in a matter of years, with no way to stop it, and the vociferous minority began to change food choices at schools, what shops could and could not trade in certain areas, running special extra-legal courts with their own laws and so on and so forth, would we here in NZ think that was awesome?

I suspect not.

I have to agree with you @Geektastic.

Whilst we may enjoy trying foods, music and dance from other countries, the different value systems can be the cause of friction, i.e. what is the right thing in one culture is the wrong thing in another.
e.g. being honest (including your word is your bond) vs agreeing with the other person so as to not offend them,
feed the children first vs feed the adults first,
men come first vs men and women are equal,
party all night (have fun/be immature) vs go to bed early so can work hard the next day (be productive/be boring).

Culturally, I would like NZ to have more music and dance, and be less 'macho' towards those whose areas of excellence lie outside of the sporting arena, especially the sciences (NZ needs far more R&D). The tall poppy syndrome must stop. Culturally, things I like about NZ are the egalitarian approach, the public schooling system for both sexes, the public health system, that we put rubbish in the bin (well most of us do), the aversion towards corruption and bribery and in general our governments seek for the common good (although they may differ on their views of how to achieve that, at least they are looking that way, versus just lining their pockets and their mates' pockets by fraud and the stripping of national resources).

I try not to be a bigot and change my opinion when experiences teach me differently. I speak 3 languages and have lived in 4 different countries, both developed and third world. My wife is not a NZer. NZ is still my favourite place.

SJB

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#1565073 3-Jun-2016 14:44

MikeB4:

I was quoting the Financial Times summary of polls poll umm thingy hmmm.

Whatever the figures it looks like it might be a close run thing after all. A couple of weeks ago I thought it was all over for the 'leaves'.

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DaveB

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#1569168 10-Jun-2016 09:43

This news article made me smile - as only Fleet Street can at times:-

A whopping 88 per cent of people polled by a top Dutch newspaper said they would be in favour of an in/out vote along British lines.

They have been inspired by possibility of Britain quitting the bloc on June 23 – and hope 'Nexit' will follow "Brexit".

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#1569264 10-Jun-2016 11:34

DaveB:

This news article made me smile - as only Fleet Street can at times:-

A whopping 88 per cent of people polled by a top Dutch newspaper said they would be in favour of an in/out vote along British lines.

They have been inspired by possibility of Britain quitting the bloc on June 23 – and hope 'Nexit' will follow "Brexit".

The Sage of Omaha recently said that if the UK leaves, it will be the end of "the European experiment" for good.

MikeB4

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#1569278 10-Jun-2016 11:43

The Leave vote has nosed ahead in some of the polls but undecided is still in double figures. My gut feeling is the vote will go with stay but it will be very close and as such not an end to the debate.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

SJB

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#1569361 10-Jun-2016 12:40

Apparently an informal poll in Holland said that 88% of the Dutch would like the opportunity to have a referendum like the UK.

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