The Thai cave boys

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#2051873 9-Jul-2018 11:32

networkn:

tdgeek:

I read the question that the issue revolved around life saving pumps, as if that's all that matters. Add to the fact that does it really matter who supplied them, given that's its well known that there is a large international and local effort. The issue is the rescue, not the finer detail

I think you are being overly harsh. Different people find different things interesting in any given situation. My FIL is a vastly experienced commerical diver (1000+ dives) and was interested in the technical side as well. Doesn't mean they don't care about other factors.

That's your opinion, I have mine. Its very interesting about how much the pumps are pumping out, how much the water level changed when they tested turning them off, that's interesting. Very interesting in fact, it gives us readers as insight into the whole model of this rescue. The tunnels, the length, the water, and so on. An inventory of suppliers and brands, not so much

MikeAqua

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#2051874 9-Jul-2018 11:35

networkn:

Heres an interesting question I think.

There is a choke point in the rescue, said to be 30 ish cm in size. Is there some reason they couldn't make that hole bigger? Even making it 50% bigger would be a lot safer I'd imagine.

Wondered this too and came up with two postulated reasons not too.

1) Limestone (assumed material) can be unstable, messing with it might cause a sizeable collapse

2) The difficulty of getting gear and miners in, powering gear and clearing away the material removed.

Mike

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#2051877 9-Jul-2018 11:39

networkn:

Heres an interesting question I think.

There is a choke point in the rescue, said to be 30 ish cm in size. Is there some reason they couldn't make that hole bigger? Even making it 50% bigger would be a lot safer I'd imagine.

Very good question. I can only assume time. Time is a problem here. If its awkward but clearly able to be used, maybe not worth the time to improve it.

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#2051897 9-Jul-2018 11:42

networkn:

Heres an interesting question I think.

There is a choke point in the rescue, said to be 30 ish cm in size. Is there some reason they couldn't make that hole bigger? Even making it 50% bigger would be a lot safer I'd imagine.

I saw something on BBC where a diver was doing just this, drilling underwater at some of the obstruction. I assume it was the choke point, but I didn't specifically hear that and the item was only brief. I haven't seen it again.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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#2051898 9-Jul-2018 11:45

Big call, shows how close to the line they are sailing

"Much still depends on a doctor who made the call for four Thai boys - reportedly the weakest of the group - to swim and climb to safety along treacherous tunnels barely wide enough to wriggle through."

Looks good for the remainder if the weaker 4 were able to manage it, especially if conditions decline. It also shows how well the whole team have nailed this

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#2051902 9-Jul-2018 11:49

I wondered about that too... maybe they evaluated the collapse risk as too high.

networkn

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#2051904 9-Jul-2018 11:53

Also noted in the press releases, that the 4 most at risk boys are now safe. I am not sure how at risk they are relative to the others but one would hope that this improves the chances as each rescue goes on.

Lastly, I presume that the coach will be the last to leave. I wonder if he will attempt to stay where he is, fearful of reprisal for his part in all of this? I could almost see him coming to harm as part of his rescue....

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#2051905 9-Jul-2018 11:55

networkn:

Also noted in the press releases, that the 4 most at risk boys are now safe. I am not sure how at risk they are relative to the others but one would hope that this improves the chances as each rescue goes on.

Lastly, I presume that the coach will be the last to leave. I wonder if he will attempt to stay where he is, fearful of reprisal for his part in all of this? I could almost see him coming to harm as part of his rescue....

I was pleased to see that the parents' messages sent to the boys included messages to the coach urging him not to blame himself, even though the responsibility is heavily on him.

The death of the rescue diver is going to weigh on him forever no matter what people say.

networkn

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#2051906 9-Jul-2018 11:59

kryptonjohn:

The death of the rescue diver is going to weigh on him forever no matter what people say.

I agree. Having said that there was mention of the coach being charged potentially. Thailand has some pretty harsh penalties and spending time in a Thai Prison is pretty low on my list of wants in life.

If he was charged, then I think serious weight should be put on the fact he kept those kids alive and in reasonably spirits when to him it must have seemed terrifying too.

It is a hard one, because as an adult, I feel his would be the ultimate responsbility....

tdgeek

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#2051907 9-Jul-2018 12:01

networkn:

Also noted in the press releases, that the 4 most at risk boys are now safe. I am not sure how at risk they are relative to the others but one would hope that this improves the chances as each rescue goes on.

Lastly, I presume that the coach will be the last to leave. I wonder if he will attempt to stay where he is, fearful of reprisal for his part in all of this? I could almost see him coming to harm as part of his rescue....

From what I recall, they went in June which was allowed, where July onwards was off limits, so theoretically it was safe to hop in and hop out. Everyone these days wants a scapegoat, I'm not sure its warranted here. I assume it also got the go ahead from the management of the team, parents, as well as the approval (which I assume was required) from those that monitor cave excursions. As we see everywhere, the climate has changed and anything can happen. Japan has just had massive rainfall that's never been seen before.

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#2051910 9-Jul-2018 12:08

I wasn't going to mention the coach until the rescue was over, but since it has now been raised, I have been thinking of another possibility that worries me.

The boys have not been told of the death of the diver for obvious reasons. But if all get out safely, the coach will have a terrible burden to bear and it is very likely he will hold himself responsible for that death. Asian culture being what it is, I think it is very possible that he will see this as a huge loss of honour, since he created the situation that caused it, and I can easily imagine him becoming suicidal. It is something to bear in mind.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

networkn

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#2051911 9-Jul-2018 12:10

tdgeek:

networkn:

Also noted in the press releases, that the 4 most at risk boys are now safe. I am not sure how at risk they are relative to the others but one would hope that this improves the chances as each rescue goes on.

Lastly, I presume that the coach will be the last to leave. I wonder if he will attempt to stay where he is, fearful of reprisal for his part in all of this? I could almost see him coming to harm as part of his rescue....

From what I recall, they went in June which was allowed, where July onwards was off limits, so theoretically it was safe to hop in and hop out. Everyone these days wants a scapegoat, I'm not sure its warranted here. I assume it also got the go ahead from the management of the team, parents, as well as the approval (which I assume was required) from those that monitor cave excursions. As we see everywhere, the climate has changed and anything can happen. Japan has just had massive rainfall that's never been seen before.

That's a lot of assumptions. I'd also note that culturally, Thailand is very different from Western Countries in terms of how/whether they hold people accountable etc.

Most of the parents seem forgiving so long as no kids die, but you only need one set of parents to make noise.

If kids die, all bets are off.

tdgeek

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#2051912 9-Jul-2018 12:18

networkn:

tdgeek:

networkn:

Also noted in the press releases, that the 4 most at risk boys are now safe. I am not sure how at risk they are relative to the others but one would hope that this improves the chances as each rescue goes on.

Lastly, I presume that the coach will be the last to leave. I wonder if he will attempt to stay where he is, fearful of reprisal for his part in all of this? I could almost see him coming to harm as part of his rescue....

From what I recall, they went in June which was allowed, where July onwards was off limits, so theoretically it was safe to hop in and hop out. Everyone these days wants a scapegoat, I'm not sure its warranted here. I assume it also got the go ahead from the management of the team, parents, as well as the approval (which I assume was required) from those that monitor cave excursions. As we see everywhere, the climate has changed and anything can happen. Japan has just had massive rainfall that's never been seen before.

That's a lot of assumptions. I'd also note that culturally, Thailand is very different from Western Countries in terms of how/whether they hold people accountable etc.

Most of the parents seem forgiving so long as no kids die, but you only need one set of parents to make noise.

If kids die, all bets are off.

It seems unlikely he will be charged. There was no intent. It would come down to negligence. The June being ok period, I recall reading somewhere early on. My only assumptions are that there were others aware. If he took them to the cave with no one knowing, and it was in the danger period, that's certainly different. It wasn't in the danger period, and they have been many places before, including there, 4 times. Negligence would apply if June was a no limits period, and it seems not to be. If kids die, none of that changes. However, the desire for a scapegoat would. It will be interesting to see if this trip was unknown to anyone else. Or what rules are in place

EDIT "It seems unlikely he will be charged." This is as per Thai Police, not an assumption

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#2051915 9-Jul-2018 12:25

I think the warnings are about entering the cave during the period from July through November. The team went in on June 23. Apparently it was a bit of a tradition for them to enter this complex and leave their mark in one of the chambers. E.G father played for the team back in the day now his son can go in and see his name on the wall and add his own to the list of past players. Unfortunately a rain storm came earlier than normal and caught them out. But yes they certainly should have told someone where they were going and when to expect them back etc.

networkn

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#2051919 9-Jul-2018 12:29

The fact that it took them 10 days to find them and they weren't sure exactly where they were looking, seems to indicate there wasn't much said to anyone about where they were going or when they would be back?

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