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# 109774 26-Sep-2012 11:51
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OK so the other day I had a lapse in judgement and went to purchase a bed for the house I'm moving into.

I went to a number of stores and finally found someone who seemed trustworthy, and who's advise followed what I had read online.

I wasn't sure on the measurements of the room so decided to only get the bed and not a full bedroom suite with draws etc.

The sales person pushed for a deposit and said he wouldn't place the order until two days time to allow me a day to check the measurements etc, and would provide a refund.

I called the next day just after 9am to try cancel the order but the best they would offer was store credit and said they had no obligation to cancel the order.

Do I have any comeback on that at all, given they weren't to place the order with the supplier until the following day and them telling me they would offer a refund?

The FTA and CGA seems light on details surrounding deposits and cancellations

Thanks




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  # 691614 26-Sep-2012 11:56
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You have an absolute come back. Walk into the store and speak with the sales associate you dealt with. Explain your situation. If he refuses/cites company policy request the store manager and inform him you were promised a refund. Do not leave the store till you have it.



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  # 691623 26-Sep-2012 12:17
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I'm going to do just that later today, however they are trying to muddy the argument by saying the refund was only for a single item, something which I clearly said I would leave until another day so its turned into a big he said she said thing.

Between my wife and I we've had 7 (seven) conversations over the phone about this, and they are not budging, which only makes me feel glad they only have my $500 deposit and not the full $3000


 
 
 
 


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  # 691626 26-Sep-2012 12:23
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Lay out in front of them exactly what you want them to do / give you and what you understood the agreement was with them. If they won't tell them you will see them in the Small Claims Court.

You might also want to report them to the Commerce Commission as it sounds like they are engaging in very dodgy practices!!

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  # 691632 26-Sep-2012 12:31
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From reading the thread, I think it went something like this

"I like the bed, I'm not sure about the cabinet"
"you can put a deposit on the cabinet and if you find it won't fit after measuring we will refund it"
"no that's ok, I'll just take the bed for now, here's a deposit I'll pay the rest when it's here"

If that's about right, then I'd say that they are not obligated to refund you, the refund was offered for the cabinet.

If you took it to the dt, the outcome wouldn't be certain either way.

But the business is stupid, they should just refund you out of goodwill.





---
James Sleeman
I sell lots of stuff for electronic enthusiasts...


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  # 691640 26-Sep-2012 12:48
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How did you pay the $500?

If by credit card, initiate a charge back with your card issuer




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  # 691646 26-Sep-2012 12:54
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They do not have to give you a refund if you simply change your mind, however you don't say why you cancelled the order?

You need to be crystal clear on any additional conditions of sale, such as the alleged agreement to refund (I say alleged because we only have one side of the story).

Bottom line - get it in writing!

I fear you may have a fight on your hands if the agreement wasn't clearly understood to mean the same thing to all parties.




Always be yourself, unless you can be Batman, then always be the Batman



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  # 691649 26-Sep-2012 12:59
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generally you have no statutory right to a refund if you change your mind, but if the store has promised you one then you do.
Proving that they promised you one will be difficult.
Obviously not helpful now, but in future if salespeople are offering something different to standard terms then always get them to write it down on the reciept.
Another piece of too-late advice would be to not pay a deposit on something unless you are actually going to order it.
The whole point of a deposit is to show a commitment to buying a product at a later date by putting up some of the money so the store can reserve the product knowing it is going to be sold later. If deposits were refundable and orders could be cancelled then there would be no point in having them at all.

If the product needed to be ordered (i.e. it wasn;t the last one in stock) then I don;tunderstand why you would have paid a deposit unless you wanted it ordered then and there.


 
 
 
 




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  # 691656 26-Sep-2012 13:09
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sleemanj: From reading the thread, I think it went something like this

"I like the bed, I'm not sure about the cabinet"
"you can put a deposit on the cabinet and if you find it won't fit after measuring we will refund it"
"no that's ok, I'll just take the bed for now, here's a deposit I'll pay the rest when it's here"

If that's about right, then I'd say that they are not obligated to refund you, the refund was offered for the cabinet.

If you took it to the dt, the outcome wouldn't be certain either way.

But the business is stupid, they should just refund you out of goodwill.



I'm sure they would like it to have been like that, but it wasn't. Luckily I wasn't there alone, had my wife and sister in law with me at the time, who all heard the full conversation.

The deposit was paid by CC .... interesting idea about getting that cancelled through the bank, sender how easily they will just do that.

The three of us are going back there today to fight this out..... I might just update you on how we get along. Knowing my wife and sister in law, it will either end well or on the news.



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  # 691657 26-Sep-2012 13:10
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scuwp: They do not have to give you a refund if you simply change your mind, however you don't say why you cancelled the order?

You need to be crystal clear on any additional conditions of sale, such as the alleged agreement to refund (I say alleged because we only have one side of the story).

Bottom line - get it in writing!

I fear you may have a fight on your hands if the agreement wasn't clearly understood to mean the same thing to all parties.


Yes they have the right for a refund, as the OP said the following.

The sales person pushed for a deposit and said he wouldn't place the order until two days time to allow me a day to check the measurements etc, and would provide a refund.

Word of mouth is a legally binding. If you had someone with you they can sign an affidavit to prove what they said was true. I don't see that the bed shop suffered any financial loss either, so the refund should be forthcoming as per the agreement. Personally I hate buying stuff in shops from hardselling sale people, who probably earn on commission and can say anything to make a sale. I have had too many bad experiences with hard sellers. There is a reason why many people now buy online. I would make a compliant to the owner of the store, and inform them that they are breaching the verbal contract you had. It is ikely that the salesperson has breached their store policy by saying that they do provide refunds on deposits. I pressume the person you asked the refund from was just their accounts person, so probably didn't know about the special agreement you had made with the saleperson. Just wondering, did you sign any contract as part of the sale, as that usually has on it the terms of sale and refunds. If the refunds policy is different to what the salesperson verbally agreed, they should have probably written on the contract about that special refund offer.

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  # 691658 26-Sep-2012 13:12
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Have you been able to meet the salesperson and see what they thought the understanding was?

NonprayingMantis: If the product needed to be ordered (i.e. it wasn;t the last one in stock) then I don;tunderstand why you would have paid a deposit unless you wanted it ordered then and there.

A lot of furniture (and NZ made beds particularly) is order to manufacture essentially. The salesperson may have got the money in hand on the basis of something like place your deposit then we can order or delay as required and you won't have to return to the shop for the rest of the process.



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  # 691661 26-Sep-2012 13:17
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NonprayingMantis: generally you have no statutory right to a refund if you change your mind, but if the store has promised you one then you do.
Proving that they promised you one will be difficult.
Obviously not helpful now, but in future if salespeople are offering something different to standard terms then always get them to write it down on the reciept.
Another piece of too-late advice would be to not pay a deposit on something unless you are actually going to order it.
The whole point of a deposit is to show a commitment to buying a product at a later date by putting up some of the money so the store can reserve the product knowing it is going to be sold later. If deposits were refundable and orders could be cancelled then there would be no point in having them at all.

If the product needed to be ordered (i.e. it wasn;t the last one in stock) then I don;tunderstand why you would have paid a deposit unless you wanted it ordered then and there.



I've read the consumer advise around change of minds, I've got no problems with that and understand the obligations. I was surprised they started talking about the law etc long before I did, and that was the part that annoyed me, particularly as the law has provision for a full refund even on change of mind, if it was offered, which it was.

The second part that annoys me was that they said they would wait another day before ordering it with their supplier to allow me to cancel it as the purchase of the house was not unconditional yet, . However they supposedly placed the order that same day, which is honestly not my problem. I called them first thing on Monday morning to find myself involved in this.

I'm almost ready to name and shame them.

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  # 691664 26-Sep-2012 13:22
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If they still refuse to provide a refund, call your bank and request a charge back on the basis the retailer has breached the verbal contract and nothing has been provided.

It's then up to the retailer to PROVE that they are not in the wrong, if they can't you will get a refund.




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  # 691666 26-Sep-2012 13:33
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insane: However they supposedly placed the order that same day, which is honestly not my problem. I called them first thing on Monday morning to find myself involved in this.

I'm almost ready to name and shame them.


Well that is their mistake not yours. So it doesn't even sound like they actually ordered it to your measurements anyway then? If you told them it the size won't work, then it should have been simple cancellation and refund. I wouldn't name the company, I would give the owner the opportunity to put the matter right. It may just be a problem with the way they process orders, or a poor saleperson who was desperate for a commission sale.

gzt

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  # 691667 26-Sep-2012 13:36
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insane: The deposit was paid by CC .... interesting idea about getting that cancelled through the bank, sender how easily they will just do that.

Easy as. Just call them or drop into your bank and forget about the rest. It is exactly why you pay credit card fees for times like this.

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  # 691675 26-Sep-2012 13:45
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gzt:
insane:?The deposit was paid by CC .... interesting idea about getting that cancelled through the bank, sender how easily they will just do that.

Easy as. Just call them or drop into your bank and forget about the rest. It is exactly why you pay credit card fees for times like this.


They usually make you fill in a form, which can take a while to fill in. I believe the retailer also gets charged quite a big fee when a chargeback is issued against them. Not sure what this amount is though

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