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Batman

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#141022 27-Feb-2014 11:18
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I was watching one news yesterday and they reported you can install ESP in you car for $1000.

Where can I do that? I have a Subaru wagon 4WD 2000 ...

I kinda didn't believe the news report but thought I'd ask!




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clevedon
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  #995435 27-Feb-2014 12:23
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No, they said it adds about $1000 to the cost of building a new car - it can't be retrofitted.

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  #995439 27-Feb-2014 12:25
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Ah I see. That makes much more sense oops




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Geektastic
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  #995446 27-Feb-2014 12:32
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I've noticed (on a related note) that the cars they use in adverts involving stopping quickly to avoid accidents invariably lack ABS.

My father had ABS in a Merc he bought in the 80's. Surely no cars exist 25 years later (other than classics) that lack this very basic safety feature? Even Triumph were fitting it to cars in 1972!







Batman

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  #995448 27-Feb-2014 12:35
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Not protons and I'm not sure about Chinese cars




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ubergeeknz
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  #995475 27-Feb-2014 13:13
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Geektastic: I've noticed (on a related note) that the cars they use in adverts involving stopping quickly to avoid accidents invariably lack ABS.


Adds to the drama!  Same in TV shows and movies.

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  #995477 27-Feb-2014 13:18
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no ABS in any of these models. presumably very similar approach in those cheap indian and Chinese cars

http://www.proton-edar.com.my/en/Models/Saga%20FLX/Model%20Pricing%20and%20Specification%20Page.aspx#PRICING & SPECS




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mattwnz
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  #995478 27-Feb-2014 13:18
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joker97: Not protons and I'm not sure about Chinese cars

 

Considering many chinese cars appear to use very old designs which they have purchased on license from known manufacturers, I wouldn't be surprised. I wouldn't buy a chinese car based on that, as you may as well just buy a second hand top brand car, which will liekly be less anyway. If buying new, I would only buy a car with ESP, as it is money well spent.



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  #995479 27-Feb-2014 13:20
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joker97: Not protons and I'm not sure about Chinese cars


From a quick check, all Proton models listed for sale in NZ, and the cheapest and nastiest Chinese Chery "J3" have ABS as standard.
Most of the Proton models also had ESC.
All of the "Great Wall" utes have ABS.  Lack of ESC had them lambasted in Aussie - but comparing them with non-chinese models at (usually over) twice the price.
They are probably abject pieces of garbage, but the reality is that despite horrible publicity (much of it probably justified), they're actually probably just as safe - or safer - vehicles than what you'd be able to buy with the same money in the used car market - which might (if you're lucky) find you a 5 year old Hilux or Nissan etc.


mattwnz
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  #995482 27-Feb-2014 13:28
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Fred99:
joker97: Not protons and I'm not sure about Chinese cars


From a quick check, all Proton models listed for sale in NZ, and the cheapest and nastiest Chinese Chery "J3" have ABS as standard.
Most of the Proton models also had ESC.
All of the "Great Wall" utes have ABS.  Lack of ESC had them lambasted in Aussie - but comparing them with non-chinese models at (usually over) twice the price.
They are probably abject pieces of garbage, but the reality is that despite horrible publicity (much of it probably justified), they're actually probably just as safe - or safer - vehicles than what you'd be able to buy with the same money in the used car market - which might (if you're lucky) find you a 5 year old Hilux or Nissan etc.



Utes often use pretty old tech in them anyway.

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  #995484 27-Feb-2014 13:28
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Geektastic: I've noticed (on a related note) that the cars they use in adverts involving stopping quickly to avoid accidents invariably lack ABS.

My father had ABS in a Merc he bought in the 80's. Surely no cars exist 25 years later (other than classics) that lack this very basic safety feature? Even Triumph were fitting it to cars in 1972!


Braking is actually a skill. ABS is for those of us who can't be bothered about learning how to stop a car in the shortest possible time.

At the end of the day, all it does is prevent the wheels from locking up. If you know how to "pumpt the brakes" you can achieve the same stopping distance if you are in a car with ABS or not (providing all other factors are equal).

ABS also only operates above a certain speed. So a person who does not actually know how to operate the brakes properly in a car with ABS is probably worse off at low speed! Maybe this explains the high amount of low speed crashes we have these days. I seems to recall there are also some disadvantages with ABS breaking on snow or loose gravel.


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  #995486 27-Feb-2014 13:31
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Klipspringer: Braking is actually a skill. ABS is for those of us who can't be bothered about learning how to stop a car in the shortest possible time.

At the end of the day, all it does is prevent the wheels from locking up. If you know how to "pumpt the brakes" you can achieve the same stopping distance if you are in a car with ABS or not (providing all other factors are equal).



surely not. are you talking about lewis Hamilton under dry racing conditions or some random human when it's wet and dark and in a complete panic?




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clevedon
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  #995497 27-Feb-2014 13:58
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Klipspringer: At the end of the day, all it does is prevent the wheels from locking up. If you know how to "pumpt the brakes" you can achieve the same stopping distance if you are in a car with ABS or not (providing all other factors are equal).

ABS also only operates above a certain speed. So a person who does not actually know how to operate the brakes properly in a car with ABS is probably worse off at low speed! Maybe this explains the high amount of low speed crashes we have these days. I seems to recall there are also some disadvantages with ABS breaking on snow or loose gravel.



The average human will never be as efficient as an ABS system.

ABS works at any speed, whenever a wheel locks the ABS system is activated.

jarledb
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  #995502 27-Feb-2014 14:09
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One pronounced advantage of ABS-systems is that you can actually steer while braking. This is especially noticeable on a slippery surface.

But remember ABS is not the same as ESP (which is finally becoming mandatory). The ABS system is to make sure the breaks don't lock up and to make it easier to steer while breaking. While the ESP system is there to deal with skids and the likes and try to make sure the car is not getting out of control.

I have been driving now for 25 years and have been involved in a couple of crashes (nothing major with people getting hurt, luckily - and nothing since I learned to assume everyone else is being an idiot on the road), and believe me when you are in the middle of a situation where something dangerous is happening you don't really have the reaction to do all the things you might think you as a skilled driver is capable of. Thats when these extra systems is a lot of help.

Batman

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  #995503 27-Feb-2014 14:10
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Klipspringer:
ABS also only operates above a certain speed. So a person who does not actually know how to operate the brakes properly in a car with ABS is probably worse off at low speed! Maybe this explains the high amount of low speed crashes we have these days. I seems to recall there are also some disadvantages with ABS breaking on snow or loose gravel.



not on my car. it works at any speed.

in ice your car won't stop because there is no friction the brakes will want to lock at any pressure, ABS will stop the wheel from locking up and hence the wheel will keep spinning.

in snow ... well ... if you want to go faster than available friction then you're out of luck. ABS will still work as there will still be some friction but, yes you're at a disadvantage, but as i said tough luck. perhaps the norwegians can explain how they do heavy braking with abs in the snow. (i expect the answer to be - you don't)

are you under 25 by any chance :D




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surfisup1000
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  #995505 27-Feb-2014 14:13
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Geektastic: I've noticed (on a related note) that the cars they use in adverts involving stopping quickly to avoid accidents invariably lack ABS.

My father had ABS in a Merc he bought in the 80's. Surely no cars exist 25 years later (other than classics) that lack this very basic safety feature? Even Triumph were fitting it to cars in 1972!


I was sceptical about your 1972 claim....but, googling it, sure , they were fitting abs to cars back then. 

Awesome!!

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