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Geektastic

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#204407 30-Sep-2016 10:26
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From today's Times

 

 

 

"Sweden has announced plans to reintroduce compulsory military service eight years after it was abolished.

 

Young Swedes born after 1999 have been put on notice that they will eligible for conscription from 2018 to meet shortfalls in voluntary recruitment."






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MikeB4
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  #1643175 30-Sep-2016 10:35
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I am from a family with a very long military history and the overwhelming view is conscription is never successful. You wind up with the majority of recruits not wanting to be there and achieve nothing.  Unless there is a conflict or imminent conflict it is a waste of money and time.


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frankv
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  #1643190 30-Sep-2016 10:50
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I agree.

 

The requirement for cannon-fodder is gone. A soldier nowadays needs to be highly-trained... the unwilling conscriptees won't be there long enough, nor care enough, to get enough skills to be useful.

 

But it will give the Swedish Govt a convenient tool to control unemployment (6.6 percent in August 2016).

 

 


Geektastic

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  #1643230 30-Sep-2016 11:34
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Apparently it is due to concern over Russia.

 

I anticipate that that NATO will be increasing forces in Europe before much longer. The EU keep whittering about an EU army but personally I suspect that would work badly and be expensive in comparison to using the tried and tested existing platform of NATO.

 

There is no doubt that EU countries have seriously underestimated their investment in military capability: Britain's army is now smaller than it was when we faced Napoleon!

 

As regards Sweden, being cynical I could say it gives them a method of forcing all the 'refugees' they recently got to integrate, on the assumption that they will be included if they have Swedish citizenship - which may or may not be the case, I do not know.








Lias
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  #1643236 30-Sep-2016 11:40
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I like the idea of conscription, but only as part of compulsory national service. 





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MikeB4
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  #1643238 30-Sep-2016 11:40
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I do not believe that Russia is a threat to greater Europe. They are just posturing in the same manner as the US is, childish games. 


MikeB4
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  #1643241 30-Sep-2016 11:43
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Lias:

 

I like the idea of conscription, but only as part of compulsory national service. 

 

 

 

 

A waste of time and means the professional defence force needs to baby sit discontent people that simply do want to be there.  Our voluntary part time  military service ( Territorials ) serves those who want to be there

 

well and they achieve considerably more with many going on to regular force.


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  #1643253 30-Sep-2016 11:57
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MikeB4:

 

 

 

A waste of time and means the professional defence force needs to baby sit discontent people that simply do want to be there.  Our voluntary part time  military service ( Territorials ) serves those who want to be there

 

well and they achieve considerably more with many going on to regular force.

 

 

Yes, but learning basic survival skills, first aid, discipline etc would benefit a great many people who DON'T want to be in the army :-) The current LSV Scheme has changed plenty of young peoples's lives, I think it should be greatly expanded to be compulsory at a bare minimum.





I'm a geek, a gamer, a dad and an IT Professional. I have a full rack home lab, size 15 feet, an epic beard and Asperger's. I'm a bit of a Cypherpunk, who believes information wants to be free and the Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it.




Hammerer
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  #1643256 30-Sep-2016 12:03
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MikeB4:

 

I do not believe that Russia is a threat to greater Europe. They are just posturing in the same manner as the US is, childish games. 

 

 

I believe that Russia is a threat because it scores highly on many risk factors such as:

 

  • authoritarian regime with totalitarian tendencies
  • increasing state control of media
  • increasing limitation of human rights
  • election rigging and elimination of political opponents by legal and illegal means
  • a recent record of military intervention (e.g. Ukraine, Syria)
  • a national narrative that emphasises power and recovery of past empire
  • etc.

Hammerer
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  #1643258 30-Sep-2016 12:04
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It would be easy to add some specific examples that show Russia is reactive and reactionary when it comes to dealings with NATO and the EU.


MikeB4
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  #1643268 30-Sep-2016 12:27
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Lias:

 

MikeB4:

 

 

 

A waste of time and means the professional defence force needs to baby sit discontent people that simply do want to be there.  Our voluntary part time  military service ( Territorials ) serves those who want to be there

 

well and they achieve considerably more with many going on to regular force.

 

 

Yes, but learning basic survival skills, first aid, discipline etc would benefit a great many people who DON'T want to be in the army :-) The current LSV Scheme has changed plenty of young peoples's lives, I think it should be greatly expanded to be compulsory at a bare minimum.

 

 

 

 

These skills can be obtained now outside of the army for those motivated to do so, compulsion will not motivate. I agree the LSV is good and those who wish to continue can join the regular force or the territorial units


gzt

gzt
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  #1643275 30-Sep-2016 12:51
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Sweden is reintroducing conscription? Incorrect. No decision has been made.

'Plans' is misleading. Conscription is one proposal on the table to meet staffing requirements.

Imo reintroduction is kind of unlikely.


Geektastic

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  #1643300 30-Sep-2016 13:23
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The whole text of the article

 

 

 

"Sweden has announced plans to reintroduce compulsory military service eight years after it was abolished.

 

Young Swedes born after 1999 have been put on notice that they will eligible for conscription from 2018 to meet shortfalls in voluntary recruitment.

 

The move is seen as linked to growing nervousness over the aggressive behaviour of Russia, which led earlier this month to the permanent garrisoning of the Baltic island of Gotland.

 

Peter Hultqvist, defence minister, announced that the government would seek cross-party approval on a new system to find 4,000 conscripts in 2018 in response to the findings of a commission on the country’s defence needs.

 

Sweden has not participated in armed conflict on its territory in two centuries. It allowed Nazi Germany to cross the country to invade Norway.

 

The move is expected to be adopted by parliament, subject to agreement between the Social Democrat-led government and the opposition. Proposals for identifying conscripts will be put to a four-month consultation.

 

The commission estimated that the armed forces would need 4,000 extra recruits in 2018 and the same number in 2019. In 2021, the number needed would increase to 6,000 before stabilising at 8,000 between 2022 and 2025.

 

Sweden is not a member of Nato but has signed the alliance’s partnership for peace programme to develop military cooperation with non-members.

 

Countries around the Baltic Sea have been increasing military spending and Nato is deploying four battalions of up to 4,000 troops to the Baltic states and eastern Poland."






Fred99
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  #1643316 30-Sep-2016 13:49
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Lias:

 

The current LSV Scheme has changed plenty of young peoples's lives, 

 

 

Where's the data to support that?

 

From what I've heard through the grapevine, those schemes aren't achieving medium/long term outcomes as well as less expensive vocational training.
It makes good press to show stories of obese couch-sitting losers claiming that their lives have been turned around - and I certainly hope that it does work for some - but it's another thing to go back and check 12 months down the track to see what's happening once the thrill has gone.


MikeB4
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  #1643320 30-Sep-2016 13:56
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Fred99:

 

Lias:

 

The current LSV Scheme has changed plenty of young peoples's lives, 

 

 

Where's the data to support that?

 

From what I've heard through the grapevine, those schemes aren't achieving medium/long term outcomes as well as less expensive vocational training.
It makes good press to show stories of obese couch-sitting losers claiming that their lives have been turned around - and I certainly hope that it does work for some - but it's another thing to go back and check 12 months down the track to see what's happening once the thrill has gone.

 

 

 

 

From professional experience the LSV has had success but with all these schemes success is conditional on the attitudes and abilities of those taking place.


Linuxluver
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  #1643508 30-Sep-2016 20:38
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Geektastic:

 

Apparently it is due to concern over Russia.

 

I anticipate that that NATO will be increasing forces in Europe before much longer. The EU keep whittering about an EU army but personally I suspect that would work badly and be expensive in comparison to using the tried and tested existing platform of NATO.

 

There is no doubt that EU countries have seriously underestimated their investment in military capability: Britain's army is now smaller than it was when we faced Napoleon!

 

As regards Sweden, being cynical I could say it gives them a method of forcing all the 'refugees' they recently got to integrate, on the assumption that they will be included if they have Swedish citizenship - which may or may not be the case, I do not know.

 

 

Concern over Russia? 

 

I'd be more concerned about the real war monger in the shop: the US. 

 

 





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