Should New Zealand citizenship be for sale?

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Rikkitic

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#208234 2-Feb-2017 10:26

There has been a lot of flack about the granting of New Zealand citizenship to American billionaire Peter Thiel, who apparently has little connection to this country. The critics say he has been allowed to buy citizenship by making some big investments and donations. His supporters, such as Rod Drury and Sam Morgan, say more wealthy entrepreneurial foreigners like Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg should be encouraged to do the same as their investments create jobs and benefit all of us. In other words, they should get special treatment because they are special people.

So is this a good idea or not? Should New Zealand citizenship be for sale to those with enough money and skills, while everyone else has to wait in line and jump through hoops? Are we on the way to a new upper class to which we doff our caps and touch our forelocks?

Edit: Forgot the link

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/323610/thiel-citzenship-'absolutely'-good-for-nz-drury

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#1714357 2-Feb-2017 10:30

Sounds like trickle down economics........

mdooher

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#1714358 2-Feb-2017 10:33

why not? as long as they meet the fit and proper person tests as well

All people are not equal, we want the ones that have something we want. In this case Money

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jonb

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#1714360 2-Feb-2017 10:42

We already effectively sell permanent residency, and the pathway to citizenship is just residency and then live in NZ majority of the year for five years. Citizenship has almost no real world benefits to PR, except for someone like Thiel to buy NZ land and businesses easier. The thing leaves a bit of a sour taste, secrecy and having a private ceremony in US as can't be bothered to come to NZ and be ordained with the common people. And if he is such a proud new Kiwi, why keep a secret for five years?

Tinshed

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#1714364 2-Feb-2017 11:01

Most countries have an economic/investor migrant category where people can acquire residency and citizenship based on the amount of money they are prepared to invest in a particular country. That is not the only criteria they must meet of course but it is the main one. New Zealand is no exception. Equally someones lack of wealth need not be a barrier to them getting residency and citizenship. For example people can come here for family reunification purposes. Clearly we should many categories to grant people residency and citizenship depending on their circumstances. I don't see any particular issue with granting some rich people citizenship. In the case of Peter Thiel, his politics, as deplorable as they are too me at least, seem to be the main reason for his case attracting attention. Had George Clooney been granted citizenship I doubt we would be hearing as much negative comment.

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vexxxboy

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#1714366 2-Feb-2017 11:04

jonb:

We already effectively sell permanent residency, and the pathway to citizenship is just residency and then live in NZ majority of the year for five years. Citizenship has almost no real world benefits to PR, except for someone like Thiel to buy NZ land and businesses easier. The thing leaves a bit of a sour taste, secrecy and having a private ceremony in US as can't be bothered to come to NZ and be ordained with the common people. And if he is such a proud new Kiwi, why keep a secret for five years?

what has happened in the past week or so is probably why he kept it secret and there are lots of people who get citizenship and you never hear about it .

Common sense is not as common as you think.

Rikkitic

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#1714374 2-Feb-2017 11:17

I think one of the main issues with Thiel's citizenship is he doesn't live here and never has, but has only visited a few times, just like many tourists. Different rules for the rich.

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jonb

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#1714383 2-Feb-2017 11:29

vexxxboy:

jonb:

We already effectively sell permanent residency, and the pathway to citizenship is just residency and then live in NZ majority of the year for five years. Citizenship has almost no real world benefits to PR, except for someone like Thiel to buy NZ land and businesses easier. The thing leaves a bit of a sour taste, secrecy and having a private ceremony in US as can't be bothered to come to NZ and be ordained with the common people. And if he is such a proud new Kiwi, why keep a secret for five years?

what has happened in the past week or so is probably why he kept it secret and there are lots of people who get citizenship and you never hear about it .

Lots of people get citizenship after actually living in New Zealand. Exceptionally few have got citizenship without, which is why it is a story. If we are going to grant citizenship to wealthy and powerful non residents, then change the rules to make it transparent.

surfisup1000

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#1714384 2-Feb-2017 11:34

He is a far better person than many of the people already living in NZ, so all good.

MikeB4

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#1714390 2-Feb-2017 11:38

Rikkitic:

I think one of the main issues with Thiel's citizenship is he doesn't live here and never has, but has only visited a few times, just like many tourists. Different rules for the rich.

No there is not different rules.There are different criteria and The Department has rules that anyone can read and rules that are in line with Government Policy and legislation. You can easily read them if you wish.

As for this decision, if it meets the legislative and policy requirements I see no issue, we are under populated and folks meeting the requirements that bring their wealth here should be supported.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

networkn

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#1714393 2-Feb-2017 11:45

Rikkitic:

I think one of the main issues with Thiel's citizenship is he doesn't live here and never has, but has only visited a few times, just like many tourists. Different rules for the rich.

I'd like you to cite which different rules were applied to him than anyone else. Specifically.

Can you show which rules he has breached in any way?

Geektastic

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#1714400 2-Feb-2017 11:53

Of course. No problem and anyone who applies for citizenship this way still has to pass the usual background checks, health checks and so on.

The only difference is that they do not need to prove that they have a job or useful skills - which, given that they already have a heap of money is hardly necessary.

Why would you not want to bring entrepreneurial people and wealthy people to NZ? We have to get the income of the nation up somehow and whatever we've been doing for the last 150 years has hardly achieved a lot in that respect. We still have far too much of the tax burden falling on too few people.

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networkn

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#1714403 2-Feb-2017 11:55

Geektastic:

Of course. No problem and anyone who applies for citizenship this way still has to pass the usual background checks, health checks and so on.

The only difference is that they do not need to prove that they have a job or useful skills - which, given that they already have a heap of money is hardly necessary.

Why would you not want to bring entrepreneurial people and wealthy people to NZ? We have to get the income of the nation up somehow and whatever we've been doing for the last 150 years has hardly achieved a lot in that respect. We still have far too much of the tax burden falling on too few people.

The question for me, is WILL he provide any value. Time will tell, but I'll be pretty surprised if he spends significant funds here other than buying land, so I expect his tax contribution to be minimal.

Geektastic

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#1714404 2-Feb-2017 11:56

Rikkitic:

I think one of the main issues with Thiel's citizenship is he doesn't live here and never has, but has only visited a few times, just like many tourists. Different rules for the rich.

Being rich has benefits: that is why most people try and achieve it...!

Geektastic

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#1714406 2-Feb-2017 11:57

networkn:

Geektastic:

Of course. No problem and anyone who applies for citizenship this way still has to pass the usual background checks, health checks and so on.

The only difference is that they do not need to prove that they have a job or useful skills - which, given that they already have a heap of money is hardly necessary.

Why would you not want to bring entrepreneurial people and wealthy people to NZ? We have to get the income of the nation up somehow and whatever we've been doing for the last 150 years has hardly achieved a lot in that respect. We still have far too much of the tax burden falling on too few people.

The question for me, is WILL he provide any value. Time will tell, but I'll be pretty surprised if he spends significant funds here other than buying land, so I expect his tax contribution to be minimal.

I don't care if he does (although I think he will simply by association) - the question for me is will he be detrimental to NZ and that is likely to be a big fat no IMV.

Rikkitic

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#1714416 2-Feb-2017 12:04

networkn:

I'd like you to cite which different rules were applied to him than anyone else. Specifically.

Can you show which rules he has breached in any way?

I'm not sure any rules were applied to him. I think he just threw a ton of money around, got some other rich people to write letters of support, and received his citizenship.

I doubt he breached any rules, since none were applied to him. Anyway, that is not my question. My question is whether people think this is a good thing or not. For my part, I'm not sure. It offends my sense of fair play but I also see the positives. I'm not sure where the line should be drawn, so I am asking what others think. Even you.

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