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iDruid

49 posts

Geek

# 181132 3-Oct-2015 20:06

Hi,

I consider myself to have a good understanding of home wiring, master filters, xdsl etc, I am a noob here so hope i have posted this in the correct place?
I have had bad packet loss on my connection for sometime but have not been experiencing dropouts of any sort, I have contacted my ISP as i had checked my
stats at my modem and carried out some tracert tests and find certain hops inactive.

However my ISP insists it is not there problem as they can have done tests (DSLAM) and can confirm its reaching my house ok, anyways i decide to upgrade my
house wiring and hardware as Fibre for me is too long to wait.

I plan to run cat6 from the demarc to a patch panel/switch/modem, I am planning to bin the BT sockets and upgrade to RJ45 wall plates, I wont need a master filter as im on a naked
connection and plan to split the line through the cat6 cable this is not an issue? so i got up in the roof where my demarc is and found two pairs of wires one pair not connected at
all and one pair connected to the phone line that i am currently running off.

Both pairs have the same colour wires i.e red black, so i am assuming that the correct pair has been connected to my internal wiring for me to have a sound connection, It
turns out my connection is far from good, Im not sure how to proceed from here as i would like to think the correct pair is connected how can i be sure are there any simple tests
i can carry out?

Ive looked at images of other wiring diagrams at the demarc and colours are specific and colour coded for ease of understanding.

Any help would be appreciated.

Cheers

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# 1399457 3-Oct-2015 20:06

Hello... Our robot found some keywords in your post, so here is an automated reply with some important things to note regarding broadband speeds.

If you are posting regarding DSL speeds please check that

- you have reset your modem and router

- your PC (or other PCs in your LAN) is not downloading large files when you are testing

- you are not being throttled by your ISP due to going over the monthly cap

- your tests are always done on an ethernet connection to the router - do not use wireless for testing

- you read this topic and follow the instructions there.

Make sure you provide information for other users to help you. If you have not already done it, please EDIT your post and add this now:

- Your ISP and plan

- Type of connection (ADSL, ADSL2, VDSL)

- Your modem DSL stats (do not worry about posting Speedtest, we need sync rate, attenuation and noise margin)

- Your general location (or street)

- If you are rural or urban

- If you know your connection is to an exchange, cabinet or conklin

- If your connection is to a ULL or wholesale service

- If you have done an isolation test as per the link above

Most of the problems with speed are likely to be related to internal wiring issues. Read this discussion to find out more about this. Your ISP is not intentionally slowing you down today (unless you are on a managed plan). Also if this is the school holidays it's likely you will notice slower than usual speed due to more users online.

A master splitter is required for VDSL2 and in most cases will improve speeds on DSL connections. Regular disconnections can be a monitored alarm or a set top box trying to connect. If there's an alarm connected to your line even if you don't have an alarm contract it may still try to connect so it's worth checking.

I recommend you read these two blog posts:

- Is your premises phone wiring impacting your broadband performance? (very technical)

- Are you receiving a substandard ULL ADSL2+ connection from your ISP?

I am the Geekzone Robot and I am here to help. I am from the Internet. I do not interact. Do not expect other replies from me.

froob

521 posts

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# 1399471 3-Oct-2015 20:19

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If the correct pair wasn't connected, you wouldn't be able to get any DSL connection at all. Usually there would be a second pair that could be used to provide a second phone line to your house. I'm not sure what you mean by "split the line through the cat6 cable" - are you able to provide some more detail? If you can describe your setup and provide some stats from your modem, someone here might be able to help with the packet loss.

iDruid

49 posts

Geek

# 1399775 4-Oct-2015 18:43

Hi Froob,

What i meant was i want to allow connectivity in multiple room by running rg6 cable, Im just not sure how to do that from the existing wiring?
currenlt its a old standard copper connection with standard BT jacks in all the rooms, i would like to replace those with RJ45 faceplates, I think
that if i get rid of my old wiring and run new lan cable my packet loss should improve as the existing wiring doesnt look good.

Once i do this if i am still having problems them at least i can rule out any internal wiring issues.

Cheers

DarthKermit

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# 1399790 4-Oct-2015 19:33

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You want to run Ethernet over RG6 cable? Am I reading that correctly?

froob

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# 1399802 4-Oct-2015 20:15

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I'm guessing that's a typo and you meant Cat6 rather than RG6.

Probably what you want to do is replace the wire from your demarcation point to a single jack with Cat 6, as you've said. That might solve your connection issues, particularly if the current wiring is a mess. The red + black pair that's currently in use can connect on the blue + blue/white pair in the Cat6. The other 3 pairs are left unused.

That single jack where the phone line comes in could be a single port on a patch panel you have set up. Your modem/router would connect to that. You would then have the other ports on the patch panel set up, each which a new Cat6 cable running out to each outlet (two for a double outlet) to be patched into the ethernet ports on the modem/router. In other words, a star wiring configuration as shown here: https://www.chorus.co.nz/file/18484/minimum_communication_cabling_requirements.pdf

You would only be able to reuse the wiring to your current BT jack points for data if it is already in a star wiring configuration, and is at least Cat5. That would probably only be the case if your house is modern and the wiring has been installed recently. Even then, it is more likely that the points will be daisy chained, rather than in a star configuration.

If the wiring is already in a star configuration and at least Cat5, then you could replace the commoning hardware (the point at which all the wires are connected together) with a patch panel, one wire connected to each port. They could then be patched for use as either phone or data.

If the phone jacks are daisy chained, you can pull out all your existing phone jacks and replace (this is what I did). Alternatively, you can connect the daisy chained phone jacks to a single jack on the patch panel, and then install new faceplates for the RJ45 jacks. That would allow the existing phone jacks to be livened up in the future, if you had a voice line connected, or signed up for VOIP.

Hopefully that all makes sense and answers your question, but if not, feel free to post back.

InstallerUFB

832 posts

Ultimate Geek

# 1399807 4-Oct-2015 20:28

One person supports this post

iDruid: Hi,

I plan to run cat6 from the demarc to a patch panel/switch/modem, I am planning to bin the BT sockets and upgrade to RJ45 wall plates, I wont need a master filter as im on a naked
connection and plan to split the line through the cat6 cable this is not an issue? so i got up in the roof where my demarc is and found two pairs of wires one pair not connected at
all and one pair connected to the phone line that i am currently running off.

Both pairs have the same colour wires i.e red black, so i am assuming that the correct pair has been connected to my internal wiring for me to have a sound connection, It
turns out my connection is far from good, Im not sure how to proceed from here as i would like to think the correct pair is connected how can i be sure are there any simple tests
i can carry out?

Pictures would help :-)

Normaly demarcs are on the outside of the house not the ceiling. So what your looking at up there may be just a joint and from the sound of what you have described it is likely to be old school (1960s/70s) aerial or soft copper single pair cable that has been cut into and rerouted into later 70s/80s cable to the jkpts.

As has already been commented on if you have some form of DSL on the jkpts then its connected.

Is your House feed from the road via an aerial cable? if so -

To bypass all of the existing wireing - run a CAT6 all the way from were the feeding cable comes into the ceiling down to where you are going to put your patch panel - leave a coil or two at the roof end and useing two port crimp connectors connect the incomeing circuit to a single pair (normaly the blue one ) on the cat 6 and terminate the other end on a RJ45 or on your panel (just the single pair). If required later - a master spliter can be added to the pannel. Why leave a coil - so when the aerial cable is replaced and the chorus tech installs a demarc (like they are supposed to do) then they can pull the cat6 through to that point and reterminate it. A master spliter could also be added here and a secound pair in the cat 6 used to take xDSL down to your panel.

Run multipule individual runs of CAT6 cable to where you want to take data and or voice from your panel to your new faceplates and remove the old school phone cableing and BT jkpts as you go

iDruid

49 posts

Geek

# 1399975 5-Oct-2015 09:21

Hi Fellas,

Yeah typo sorry im doing two things at once it should read Cat6 lol.

Thanks for your comments, yeah my phone line is an aerial cable, It comes in of the lampost and into the front
units roof, It sucks.

I cant see how a chorus rep, could install a new demarc here without it being an aerial cable, would they have to run a new aerial cable of newer/better quality?

I am in a block of three units and unfortunately i have to ask my neighbour to get in her roof to check my wiring!
the other units wiring is external, at least its kept out of the weather!

I noticed when up in the roof after rescuing my cable from underneath mountains of insulation that it was laying over multiple power cables, one section of the line lay over what looked like the power box for the neighbours HRV.

My internal wiring is very old basic wiring, it looks like someones made it out of twist ties!

I will be pulling all of this out and replacing all jackpoints, I will run cat6 from point of entry as suggested (with some slack)
I just need to get hold of the hardware now and draw some diagrams of what i want to achieve, i have noticed that patch panels and switches designed for cat6 are much more $$ than say cat5E, what are the benefits of running cat6 other than its speed, noise reduction etc?

Do you guys think a master splitter would provide any benefit? I am not using any other jackpoints for anything but data
which will be fed from the patch panel, I have no alarm, If i want a phone later i will plan for VOIP as suggested.

Once I have completed all my internal wiring i would like to upgrade to VDSL, should my connection stats allow? I will need to assess after all these issues have been fixed i suppose.

Cheers

Sideface

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# 1400030 5-Oct-2015 10:12

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You have established that your existing house wiring is rubbish, and needs to be upgraded.

You have not told us is whether you want to keep a POTS landline, or run naked ADSL/VDSL. This is an important factor when planning.

If you want the option to upgrade to VDSL, then you need to plan your wiring upgrade for VDSL from the outset (it will still work OK with ADSL as a fall-back option).

Draw your wiring diagram BEFORE you buy your hardware.

If you want to keep your phone, then you will need a VDSL master filter to keep the phone wiring separate.

Note that you will need a push-down tool to install the RJ45 jack point(s).

Cat5e is much easier to work with than Cat6 - it is more flexible - it requires different jack points, as you already know.

Personally I would use Cat5e.

Sideface

iDruid

49 posts

Geek

# 1400065 5-Oct-2015 10:40

Hi Sideface,

I am not keeping a POTS landline as mentioned i will make preservation for VOIP should i do it later.

your comment, If you want the option to upgrade to VDSL, then you need to plan your wiring upgrade
for VDSL from the outset(it will still work OK with ADSL as a fall-back option).

What do i need to do that i haven't mentioned already?

Cat5e noted, unfortunately other than the main feed in the roof all other cabling will have to go under the
floorboards, is Cat5E sufficient here?

Yeah i have the correct tools, I just want to do it right the first time, save getting covered in cobwebs continuously.....

Cheers

iDruid

49 posts

Geek

# 1400067 5-Oct-2015 10:41

P.S - I will be running a naked connection.

Sideface

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# 1400084 5-Oct-2015 10:51

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iDruid: Hi Sideface,

I am not keeping a POTS landline as mentioned i will make preservation for VOIP should i do it later.

your comment, If you want the option to upgrade to VDSL, then you need to plan your wiring upgrade
for VDSL from the outset(it will still work OK with ADSL as a fall-back option).

What do i need to do that i haven't mentioned already?

Cat5e noted, unfortunately other than the main feed in the roof all other cabling will have to go under the
floorboards, is Cat5E sufficient here?

Yeah i have the correct tools, I just want to do it right the first time, save getting covered in cobwebs continuously.....

Cheers

If you just want naked ADSL/VDSL, and intend to disconnect ALL of your old phone wiring, then a VDSL filter is optional (I put one in anyway, in case I wanted to go back to POTS.)
I have recently run Cat5e under my house (off the ground). No technical problems.

Cobwebs, dark, and freezing cold mud on my back.
Enjoy!

Sideface

iDruid

49 posts

Geek

# 1400090 5-Oct-2015 10:57

lol

I live close to Cockle Bay and the wind can howl up under my house.

Fun times ahead - spitting feathers

Cheers

iDruid

49 posts

Geek

# 1400348 5-Oct-2015 15:10

Actually the crimping tool i cannot locate

What type of crimps and/or tool do you suggest on the feed cable?

Cheers

Sideface

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# 1400373 5-Oct-2015 16:02

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Go to Cables Direct

search for these tools:

to join ethernet to RJ45 sockets:

"Punch Down Tool" (Krone type)

to join ethernet to incoming phone wires (or master filter):

"Gel filled Joiner"
"Compression Tool"
"Swivel Blade Cable Stripper"

Sideface

toejam316

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# 1400431 5-Oct-2015 17:02

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Scotchlok UY2 connectors and, if you want to do it cheap and dirty, a pair of parallel jaw pliers, otherwise you can get proper scotchlok crimp tools if you look around where you get the UY2s.

Anything I say is the ramblings of an ill informed, opinionated so-and-so, and not representative of any of my past, present or future employers, and is also probably best disregarded.

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