Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.




958 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 476

Trusted
Subscriber

Topic # 222970 6-Sep-2017 08:50
15 people support this post
Send private message quote this post

Background:

 

My neighbour was getting fibre installed, she has a relatively new house with underground services.

 

She was told by a Chorus subcontractor (Visionstream) that because the old copper wiring was direct buried she would have to accept an overhead connection.

 

She said “no” and told them to come back with a better plan. Anyway they have said she needs to accept overhead or pay for the install herself.

 

I had similar problems with my install a few years back so I did a little research which helped her, and I thought might help some others facing similar problems of arguments over fibre installs.

 

 

 

The following extracts are from the “Network Infrastructure Project Agreement” between Chorus and Crown fibre holdings signed in January 2017. I have only included parts of the clauses relevant to a normal domestic install to a stand alone house. If you want to see the whole thing go to the CFH website and download it.

 

Annex 1

 

2.10 Standard and non standard installation

 

(a) … A Standard Installation is a Connection where the distance required to install the End User-Specific Infrastructure is up to 200m from the Premises Boundary Termination Point to the ETP on the outside wall of the Premises..

 

(c)           Notwithstanding clauses 2.10(a) and 2.10(b) of this Annexure, a Standard Installation includes the ETP and the internal Premises wiring (including MDU wiring)…..

 

(d)          Notwithstanding clauses 2.10(a) and 2.10(b) of this Annexure, for Bitstream Services, a Standard Installation also includes:

 

(i)            installing the ONT inside the Premises at the location specified by the End User and Connecting it to the Network (generally at the point of highest data usage in the Premises, such as behind the TV set); …..

 

(e)          Best Industry Practice applies when Connecting an End User, ensuring that the End User-Specific Infrastructure and associated Connections are to a high standard. This would, for example, limit the use of surface mounting within a Premises to situations where alternatives are not possible. (My Note: must be "not possible" not "difficult")

 

(f)           Connections must be made on a like-for-like basis unless otherwise agreed by the End User. This means that where an existing telecommunications service is underground, then the fibre End User-Specific Infrastructure must be underground, and where the existing telecommunications service is aerial, then the fibre End User-Specific Infrastructure must be aerial.

 

(g)          The fibre End User-Specific Infrastructure can only be a ‘fence-line’ installation if the Company first consults with the End User and obtains the End User’s prior written consent to a ‘fence-line’ installation.

 

(h)          Re-instatement for any form of End User-Specific Infrastructure is to be on a like-for-like basis; for example, a concrete surface must be replaced with a concrete surface, an asphalt surface with an asphalt surface, and a grass surface with a grass surface. However, an exact match is not required (for example, a coloured surface may be patched with an uncoloured surface) and full-width replacement is not required (but always consistent with the duty to act in accordance with Best Industry Practice).

 

but for the avoidance of doubt, the Company will not be entitled to recover any charges for performing the requirements set out in clauses 2.10(a), 2.10(b), 2.10(c) and 2.10(d) of this Annexure. (My Note: This means Chorus cannot charge the end user for a Standard install)

 

I hope this is at least of interest to some

 

 





Matthew


View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
 1 | 2
150 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 35


  Reply # 1859430 6-Sep-2017 09:18
Send private message quote this post

Thanks mdooher, this may come in handy at some stage. It appears a lot of people have had issues with installing fibre. I myself have an issue where there is fibre 500 meters away but chorus cannot provide me with fibre.


499 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 152


  Reply # 1859438 6-Sep-2017 09:28
Send private message quote this post

Thanks - very timely. Chorus are coming this afternoon to reassess after first saying they couldn't do it because of tree roots.





Amanon

 
 
 
 




958 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 476

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1859443 6-Sep-2017 09:36
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

Dulouz:

Thanks - very timely. Chorus are coming this afternoon to reassess after first saying they couldn't do it because of tree roots.



A bit of hand digging never hurt anyone, certainly far from impossible. I bet drainlayer could do it.




Matthew


1340 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 474


  Reply # 1859447 6-Sep-2017 09:45
Send private message quote this post

If I'm reading correctly, the document you referred to is for UFB2, and not UFB1?


IcI

501 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 113

Trusted

  Reply # 1859498 6-Sep-2017 10:12
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

mdooher: ...

 

(i)            installing the ONT inside the Premises at the location specified by the End User and Connecting it to the Network (generally at the point of highest data usage in the Premises, such as behind the TV set); …..

 

Maybe I should have been more insistent on the placement of my ONT.




958 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 476

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1859550 6-Sep-2017 11:21
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

Yes, this for UFB2, it is very similar for UFB1, that schedule (standard install) is no longer on the CFH website, but I have asked them for a copy




Matthew


'That VDSL Cat'
6681 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1267

Trusted
Spark
Subscriber

  Reply # 1859678 6-Sep-2017 13:17
Send private message quote this post

Nice research there.

 

 

 

This is very much like any trades work, If there is leway to pull a dodgy it can and sometimes is done.

 

I'm sure the actual value of installs that chorus pull the wool over customers eyes are low, however many of us only see the extreme and horrible cases.





#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.


374 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 37


  Reply # 1859686 6-Sep-2017 13:32
Send private message quote this post

Great stuff.  Also I'm impressed at how clear those particular agreements are.  Very "black and white".

 

For others looking to find the original agreements (for Chorus and others), you can download them here: https://www.crowninfrastructure.govt.nz/crown-partners/agreements-with-ufb-partners/


1937 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 125

Trusted

  Reply # 1861391 9-Sep-2017 17:25
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

IcI:

 

mdooher: ...

 

(i)            installing the ONT inside the Premises at the location specified by the End User and Connecting it to the Network (generally at the point of highest data usage in the Premises, such as behind the TV set); …..

 

Maybe I should have been more insistent on the placement of my ONT.

 

 

If you have a sensible place for the ONT that is required to interconnect other networks in the premises then absolutely insist on any placement that will achieve that effect. If they say the only choice is to put it somewhere convenient then that location must have some network link to any hub with a switch and/or router thats located elsewhere. Also consider that separating a network hub from the ONT prevents you from having a single backup power supply (UPS) covering the critical points of the network. If that location does not have a copper landline then you could also insist on an ITP linking your ONT or router to the house phone wiring.





Qualified in business, certified in fibre, stuck in copper, have to keep going  ^_^

1972 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 629

Subscriber

  Reply # 1862023 10-Sep-2017 23:31
Send private message quote this post

When they installed fibre for me, they insisted on linking it back into the copper phone wiring. Except my house didn't have any functional phone wiring. The only working copper telecoms wiring I had at the time was ~5m of CAT5 from the demark point directly to my ADSL router. So they just installed a jackpoint next to the ONT and wired it back to what was the demark - now the ETP.

 

I told them to not waste their time doing that as I would never use any copper phone wiring ever again. They said that they had to just in case my install got selected for auditing. Although I suspect the install requirements have since changed.








958 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 476

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1862038 11-Sep-2017 07:22
Send private message quote this post

Aredwood:

When they installed fibre for me, they insisted on linking it back into the copper phone wiring. Except my house didn't have any functional phone wiring. The only working copper telecoms wiring I had at the time was ~5m of CAT5 from the demark point directly to my ADSL router. So they just installed a jackpoint next to the ONT and wired it back to what was the demark - now the ETP.


I told them to not waste their time doing that as I would never use any copper phone wiring ever again. They said that they had to just in case my install got selected for auditing. Although I suspect the install requirements have since changed.


You could have told them you were not planning to let the auditor in anyway 😀




Matthew


997 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 358

Subscriber

  Reply # 1862061 11-Sep-2017 08:26
Send private message quote this post

One of the neighbours up our ROW (there are 5 properties) applied a while back - maybe six months. We signed the consent and sent it it. Nothing ever happened and last week we got another consent letter. Signed that and sent it in. I wonder if they're getting a no-response from one of the other properties?

 

As do the connection: When we recently re-wired the house, the sparky ran a cable from the house's external phone entry point to the office (where the modem/router lives). That cable carries a combined fibre and Cat6, so presumably if/when we get fibre, there's pretty much nothing for the Chorus contractor to do but join the cables and put the optical modem in the office?

 

 


347 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 56

Subscriber

  Reply # 1862144 11-Sep-2017 09:39
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

hio77:This is very much like any trades work, If there is leway to pull a dodgy it can and sometimes is done.

 

As a qualified "tradesman" I have to take issue with the above statement.

 

Tradespeople are taught to perform work in a "workmanlike manner". This term, an industry standard, refers to the desired and acceptable standard of quality of work and materials on a construction project.

 

I think that you will not find any "tradesmen" doing UFB installations. 





Rob

997 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 358

Subscriber

  Reply # 1862149 11-Sep-2017 09:52
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

robfish:

 

I think that you will not find any "tradesmen" doing UFB installations. 

 

 

Sadly that's true. Friend of mine had to stick around and supervise the contractors doing his fibre install as they appeared to be pretty clueless about how they were going about cutting a track up his driveway.

 

 

 

 


'That VDSL Cat'
6681 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1267

Trusted
Spark
Subscriber

  Reply # 1862337 11-Sep-2017 13:39
Send private message quote this post

robfish:

 

hio77:This is very much like any trades work, If there is leway to pull a dodgy it can and sometimes is done.

 

As a qualified "tradesman" I have to take issue with the above statement.

 

Tradespeople are taught to perform work in a "workmanlike manner". This term, an industry standard, refers to the desired and acceptable standard of quality of work and materials on a construction project.

 

I think that you will not find any "tradesmen" doing UFB installations. 

 

 

 

 

Did not mean this in any offense. 

 

Qualified tradesman, sure.

 

 

 

Take for example your cowboy builder, drainlayer or anything of the sorts...

 

 

 

Chorus techs can also be like this.

 

Not at all everyone, more than likely it is a few bad eggs that make it all look horrible.





#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.


 1 | 2
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic



Twitter »

Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

Phone prices rising as users move upmarket
Posted 24-Nov-2017 17:16


Talking net neutrality on RNZ Nine-to-Noon
Posted 24-Nov-2017 12:11


Air New Zealand experiments with blockchain technology
Posted 23-Nov-2017 15:39


Symantec selects Amazon Web Services to deliver cloud security
Posted 23-Nov-2017 10:40


New Zealand Ministry of Education chooses Unisys for cloud-based education resourcing management system
Posted 22-Nov-2017 22:00


Business analytics software powers profits for NZ wine producers
Posted 22-Nov-2017 21:52


Pyrios strikes up alliance with Microsoft integrator UC Logiq
Posted 22-Nov-2017 21:51


The New Zealand IT services ecosystem - it's all digital down here
Posted 22-Nov-2017 21:49


Volvo to supply tens of thousands of autonomous drive compatible cars to Uber
Posted 22-Nov-2017 21:46


From small to medium and beyond: Navigating the ERP battlefield
Posted 21-Nov-2017 21:12


Business owners: ERP software selection starts (and finishes) with you
Posted 21-Nov-2017 21:11


Why I'm not an early adopter
Posted 21-Nov-2017 10:39


Netatmo launches smart home products in New Zealand
Posted 20-Nov-2017 20:06


Huawei Mate 10: Punchy, long battery life, artificial intelligence
Posted 20-Nov-2017 16:30


Propel launch Disney Star Wars Laser Battle Drones
Posted 19-Nov-2017 21:26



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.