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Topic # 243951 10-Jan-2019 21:16
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Hi Guys

 

Following is a message that I sent to my current ISP.

 

"I note that Flip are increasing my costs for ADSL/phone by $2 per month, to cover increased charges by Chorus for maintenance of its legacy copper based service. This is a subject of some interest to me, as fibre is available outside my gate. I have not asked for a fibre install, as: 1] I do not require fibre; ADSL speed is OK by me 2] It would cost me about $300 extra per year over my (legacy) deal with Flip. 3] I do not care for the installations I have seen by Chorus (or its contractors). However, eventually, no doubt I will be forced to connect to fibre, if only because copper is no longer supported in my area. I note that the Commerce Commission are asking for submissions on the code of statutory requirements that Chorus must meet should it discontinue copper in certain areas (ie where fibre is readily available). It suggests a free fibre install, which I am sure will be popular with Chorus! Most likely, Chorus will increase charges for copper until users (including RSP) are forced to discontinue its use. Justified by the added cost of maintaining the copper. I will make a submission to the Commission, asking to ensure that exorbitant charges are controlled."

 

Bearing in mind what I have said above, I would like informed people to tell me what in 2019 I should do. To be practical, I do not need or want fibre but it seems to be that I am being forced into a corner.  I really am not happy with Chorus contractors banging holes in my bricks etc. Plus the costs of connecting.  ADSL is OK for me, right now. Flip do tell me that they are working on a fibre based plan. but I would bet that it is not as good as my legacy plan!  What to do!!!


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Mr Snotty
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  Reply # 2157774 10-Jan-2019 21:31
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Right.... So lets get this straight, you don't want Fibre?

 

Here's the thing. Fibre is often both cheaper, faster and more reliable than ADSL. If you can get Fibre then just do it. There is no point arguing as people (like you) will eventually have no other choice. There is absolutely no reason to not go to Fibre, and it is crazy to be sticking with an older technology for no reason at all.

 

And to top it off - as more customers move to Fibre, customers like yourself who are clinging on for no reason to ADSL are costing Chorus more and more money.

 

So, just do the switch and get it over and done with. The thing is, Chorus and ISP's have to do this in order for customers like yourself to make the switch.





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  Reply # 2157780 10-Jan-2019 21:43
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err, fibre installs are currently free. 

 

If you did some homework and maybe some pre-work....you can get the install looking how you want it to. 

 

What ties you down with flip, sureley the current plan you are on would be within an earshot of the cheapest fibre plan?

 

 

 

Regarding copper in the future. some say this network would be only used for data (i.e. no voice circuits). The cost as a user will probably be quite high because all the demand will be in fibre. Not to mention an aging network which most likely will be reduced down to where it would be in demand for data. 


 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 2157781 10-Jan-2019 21:46
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I think Flip did $50 landline + copper broadband plan at one stage, might have gone up to $55 but not more than $60/month.

 

 

I remember when fibre launched it was supposed to deliver $75 / month plans, not many of those left, but at the same time we are all wanting unlimited data plans now.

 

 


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  Reply # 2157785 10-Jan-2019 22:06
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It would be worth looking at:

 

https://www.broadbandcompare.co.nz/

 

While ADSL may be adequate for your your general internet, you have to remember that computer technology has moving goal posts.

 

I don't know what sort of computer you have, but maintenance and updates for Windows and security issues can use a lot of data... and even more can be a pain when you have to wait for a big update to download and install.

 

So maybe you might consider an update to fibre :-)

 

My 2 cents worth.





Gordy


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  Reply # 2157794 10-Jan-2019 22:28
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Unlimited Internet has a $60 fibre plan, for what it's worth. How much is your current ADSL plan anyway?

 

Fibre installs has always been free, no need to be shocked there. (Also the cost of the install will be included in Chorus's regulated asset base so they will be allowed to earn back its cost eventually.)


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  Reply # 2157795 10-Jan-2019 22:36
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michaelmurfy: ... If you can get Fibre then just do it. ... There is absolutely no reason to not go to Fibre, and it is crazy to be sticking with an older technology for no reason at all. ...

 

Gordy7: ... have to wait for a big update to download and install. ...

 

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Faster & bigger pipes for those big downloads also means more chance of being attacked with greater resulting impact. Oh, and please don't suggest getting an unRAID server with a pfsense firewall (or other current flavour of the month) to protect your network. Even here, on GZ we have participants who can't or don't want to go that far.

 

We all know that when daringpeter moves house next, it's practically guaranteed to have only fiber available. We all know that you can choose to use a horse as your primary mode of transport in this day and age, but circumstances will forcibly limit where you can do that. Some people chose not to get vaccinated.

 

The choices daringpeter makes will come with costs & trade offs. Some will be financial (is he willing to pay the higher price and stick to his principles), others will be time based (is he willing to wait 3+ hours for the patch to download before he can be productive again) while other will impact his lifestyle (because he is not binge watching seasons of TV shows on Netflix & has time to do other things).

 

But your approach to telling him to 'just get it done' smacks of crassness.





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  Reply # 2157796 10-Jan-2019 22:36
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For a lot of providers (and I know Flip don't do fibre), fibre pricing is better than or equal to DSL. It shouldn't cost you and more, and as pointed out the installation is free, so why not take the plunge and do it now? I daresay the installs won't be free forever.


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  Reply # 2157797 10-Jan-2019 22:47
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Gordy7:

 

It would be worth looking at:

 

https://www.broadbandcompare.co.nz/

 

While ADSL may be adequate for your your general internet, you have to remember that computer technology has moving goal posts.

 

I don't know what sort of computer you have, but maintenance and updates for Windows and security issues can use a lot of data... and even more can be a pain when you have to wait for a big update to download and install.

 

So maybe you might consider an update to fibre :-)

 

My 2 cents worth.

 

 

Those compare sites are not kept up to date. They can be wildly misleading about current situations... Plus there are situations in the past where there has been solid evidence that some of the compare sites (I'm not sure which one without checking records) promote sponsoring ISPs above ISPs that choose not to sponsor them.

 

They also really don't provide a base for performance comparisons - I have seen ISPs that are regularly panned here as being horrible bargain basement options appearing as their TOP RECOMMENDATION!

 

Short version: Maybe use them to get an idea, but they will NOT be accurate.

 

Cheers - N

 

[Note: I work for Spark, I'm not going to recommend any ISP, but I want anyone looking into making a decision to use the best information available]


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  Reply # 2157802 10-Jan-2019 23:08
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IcI:

 

But your approach to telling him to 'just get it done' smacks of crassness.

 

Not at all. People honestly need the push to move to UFB. I've got people over the road from me who have internal wiring issues and have VDSL who also have the ability to get UFB. I see Chorus vans over there quite often, their neighbors have told them to go to UFB and they're not listening to anyone (everyone else on our street is on UFB). Since they're on Spark they're now going to have to pay more than if they were on UFB which should hopefully motivate them to change and stop wasting the time of Spark faults and Chorus. The thing is, there is no technical reason why they can't move and I am sure their kids will appreciate the extra bandwidth - there is no more risk of "being attacked" compared to xDSL and no, I'm not going to go over there and offer them a NAS and an enterprise grade router.

 

I'm in full support of Chorus + ISP's doing this in UFB areas and honestly wish the price bump was more. NZ has world class internet and these people sticking to older technologies are often also the ones who complain about NZ having poor broadband. I see the price hikes as being a form of education for those individuals that there are better technologies available and I'm in full support also since the more people who switch to faster technologies, the better our netindex is compared to the rest of the world.

 

Also agree with @Talkiet - I wouldn't recommend broadbandcompare. It is clear they're just advertising those who pay them the most commission and also they've shown extremely dodgy behavior in the past... But on another note we do have https://broadband.geekzone.co.nz/ which is provided by a more honest company (Glimp).





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  Reply # 2157805 10-Jan-2019 23:22
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michaelmurfy:

 

IcI:

 

But your approach to telling him to 'just get it done' smacks of crassness.

 

Not at all. People honestly need the push to move to UFB. I've got people over the road from me who have internal wiring issues and have VDSL who also have the ability to get UFB. I see Chorus vans over there quite often, their neighbors have told them to go to UFB and they're not listening to anyone (everyone else on our street is on UFB). Since they're on Spark they're now going to have to pay more than if they were on UFB which should hopefully motivate them to change and stop wasting the time of Spark faults and Chorus. The thing is, there is no technical reason why they can't move and I am sure their kids will appreciate the extra bandwidth - there is no more risk of "being attacked" compared to xDSL and no, I'm not going to go over there and offer them a NAS and an enterprise grade router.

 

I'm in full support of Chorus + ISP's doing this in UFB areas and honestly wish the price bump was more. NZ has world class internet and these people sticking to older technologies are often also the ones who complain about NZ having poor broadband. I see the price hikes as being a form of education for those individuals that there are better technologies available and I'm in full support also since the more people who switch to faster technologies, the better our netindex is compared to the rest of the world.

 

Also agree with @Talkiet - I wouldn't recommend broadbandcompare. It is clear they're just advertising those who pay them the most commission and also they've shown extremely dodgy behavior in the past... But on another note we do have https://broadband.geekzone.co.nz/ which is provided by a more honest company (Glimp).

 

 

You do realise that these price increases affect people who do not and will not in the near future (or ever if it doesn't get planned) have access to UFB? Saying you wish the hike was more would force these people to pay more as well? I don't see that as being fair at all. If it needs to rise because of costs, well that's just how it is, but if it's a lot more than it needs to be that just isn't fair


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  Reply # 2157806 10-Jan-2019 23:22
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Well.... right here on GZ is a link for checking out ISPs plans and prices...

 

https://broadband.geekzone.co.nz/?utm_source=Geekzone&utm_medium=header&utm_campaign=Broadband

 

 





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  Reply # 2157809 10-Jan-2019 23:29
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snnet:

 

michaelmurfy:

 

I'm in full support of Chorus + ISP's doing this in UFB areas and honestly wish the price bump was more. NZ has world class internet and these people sticking to older technologies are often also the ones who complain about NZ having poor broadband. I see the price hikes as being a form of education for those individuals that there are better technologies available and I'm in full support also since the more people who switch to faster technologies, the better our netindex is compared to the rest of the world.

 

 

You do realise that these price increases affect people who do not and will not in the near future (or ever if it doesn't get planned) have access to UFB? Saying you wish the hike was more would force these people to pay more as well? I don't see that as being fair at all. If it needs to rise because of costs, well that's just how it is, but if it's a lot more than it needs to be that just isn't fair

 

 

I think he clearly stated he wanted the price increase in UFB areas.


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  Reply # 2157810 10-Jan-2019 23:32
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DarkShadow:

 

snnet:

 

michaelmurfy:

 

I'm in full support of Chorus + ISP's doing this in UFB areas and honestly wish the price bump was more. NZ has world class internet and these people sticking to older technologies are often also the ones who complain about NZ having poor broadband. I see the price hikes as being a form of education for those individuals that there are better technologies available and I'm in full support also since the more people who switch to faster technologies, the better our netindex is compared to the rest of the world.

 

 

You do realise that these price increases affect people who do not and will not in the near future (or ever if it doesn't get planned) have access to UFB? Saying you wish the hike was more would force these people to pay more as well? I don't see that as being fair at all. If it needs to rise because of costs, well that's just how it is, but if it's a lot more than it needs to be that just isn't fair

 

 

I think he clearly stated he wanted the price increase in UFB areas.

 

 

It does say that, yes, but in reality that's not how it's working out is it. They're charging everyone on the technology more and they've all stated their reasoning behind it to the point it isn't going to change easily


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  Reply # 2157811 10-Jan-2019 23:35
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snnet:

 

You do realise that these price increases affect people who do not and will not in the near future (or ever if it doesn't get planned) have access to UFB? Saying you wish the hike was more would force these people to pay more as well? I don't see that as being fair at all. If it needs to rise because of costs, well that's just how it is, but if it's a lot more than it needs to be that just isn't fair

 

Yes, I do understand that also. The copper network is more expensive to maintain and really - prices over the years have gone down (especially so with inflation) considerably while speeds have gone up with the shift to VDSL and all providers offering unlimited plans so the current increase is both understandable, and fair. My parents are on VDSL and they can't get UFB so they too will be affected with prices going up. I'm more suggesting in UFB areas the price goes up further to push those holding on.





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  Reply # 2157813 10-Jan-2019 23:38
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IcI:

 

 

 

Gordy7: ... have to wait for a big update to download and install. ...

 

Faster & bigger pipes for those big downloads also means more chance of being attacked with greater resulting impact.

 

 

 

 

No it doesn't. There's absolutely no correlation between download speed or bandwidth capacity relating to an increase in chances of being cyberattacked. 


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