Apple unreasonable and callous to grieving widow

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Awrrr
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#2033948 11-Jun-2018 21:05

dejadeadnz:

Rikitic: I haven't watched the video but your comment strikes me as extremely ignorant and one-sided. There's a reason why Apple (and I am hardly fond of their lack of CSR generally) would request an order proving probate: it serves as an order from the court that a person's last will has been "proved" and that there are valid executors of a will to execute the testator's intentions. Just because a man who happens to be married is dead, it doesn't automatically mean that legally his wife gets to do as she pleases with his property.

This sounds like a silly beat up to me.

I did watch it and apparently there is no probate because the man didn't have anything to leave (other than the photos and videos on his phone). Because of Apple's inflexibility on the matter, the widow has to spend $1,000 she doesn't have in order to satisfy the probate requirement. That hardly seems reasonable when she can provide every other possible kind of documentation.

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dejadeadnz

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#2033970 11-Jun-2018 21:42

You can keep ranting all you like but the law in NZ is that no entity can just do as they please with a dead person's property merely because the deceased is, well, dead and that his wife wants his property. No company is going to just break the law for you to be "nice".

Rikkitic

Awrrr
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#2033979 11-Jun-2018 21:56

I'm not ranting, merely relaying what I saw. The clear impression conveyed by Fair Go was that Apple was not going out of its way to be helpful. Because of that, Fair Go issued an appeal for help from viewers. I thought it was worth bringing that to the attention of Geekzone members, considering the interests and expertise of many of the people here. That is where my involvement ends. I hope the woman can find a satisfactory solution.

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gehenna

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#2033981 11-Jun-2018 21:59

Rikkitic:

I'm not ranting, merely relaying what I saw.

I'm personally not going to comment on whether someone is ranting or not, but you're certainly not just relaying what you saw as the title of your thread is inflammatory and conveys a personal perspective. If you were just relaying what you saw that wouldn't be the case.

gzt

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#2033985 11-Jun-2018 22:05

iPhone might have Bluetooth unlock. Check headphones, car, speakers, etc. Probably done already.

Rikkitic

Awrrr
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#2033988 11-Jun-2018 22:14

I don't want to carry this on forever so this will be my final comment. I thought about adding a question mark to my title and I probably should have, but watching the segment I did feel Apple was being unreasonable and callous. The woman is a young mother and her husband just died, after all. Surely a little compassion wouldn't be out of place? She did say that the first Apple person she talked to seemed kind and understanding, but apparently that disappeared from subsequent contacts. My only purpose in making this post was to pass on the Fair Go request for help from viewers. Hopefully someone who sees this may be in a position to help.

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Benjip

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#2034141 12-Jun-2018 09:08

Apple is protecting the privacy of a user by not allowing someone else to access the user's phone? Good. That's what device security is for.

It's not Apple's fault that this guy didn't share his passcode/password with his spouse.

I would be horrified (as someone who's in the Apple ecosystem big time) if Apple gave the go-ahead.

MikeAqua

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#2034163 12-Jun-2018 09:18

Once she has probate the phone, it's content and her late husband's accounts are presumably legally her property and apple will have to hand it all over by law. It seems the best option is for someone to help her get the money together for a probate letter - or for her late husband's lawyer to do it pro-bono, or allow her to pay it off over time.

This sad story illustrates that it's worth considering a way for your partner to have access to your various passwords in the event of your demise.

Mike

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#2034164 12-Jun-2018 09:20

Note I am not a lawyer and probably completely wrong.

A thought occurred to me, photos are/maybe "information" and currently held by Apple. The information collected in NZ even if stored offshore and could be covered under the Privacy Act. The photos that also contain images of the gentleman's wife and daughter could be seen as information held about them. If so could they legally request that information pursuant to Principle 6 of the Privacy Act?

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

MikeAqua

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#2034171 12-Jun-2018 09:29

MikeB4:

The photos that also contain images of the gentleman's wife and daughter could be seen as information held about them. If so could they legally request that information pursuant to Principle 6 of the Privacy Act?

The privacy act also allows apple to charge 'reasonable' costs for retrieval of information requested.

Mike

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#2034174 12-Jun-2018 09:37

Benjip:

Apple is protecting the privacy of a user by not allowing someone else to access the user's phone? Good. That's what device security is for.

It's not Apple's fault that this guy didn't share his passcode/password with his spouse.

I would be horrified (as someone who's in the Apple ecosystem big time) if Apple gave the go-ahead.

I agree with this. There is also an assumption here that the dead man would be happy to hand over all data on his iphone. This is not the case and he deserves his privacy too.

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#2034186 12-Jun-2018 10:04

tdgeek:

Rikkitic:

If I correctly understood what I saw, Apple can do this but basically can't be bothered. Apparently they require a probate document that the lady can't afford, but she has given them the death certificate and all kinds of other documentation. They could do it but won't.

Its not cannot be bothered, its their privacy policy. That is a high bar, and thats understandable given online privacy. But there needs to be a better way out. Otherwise we will all forge certificates and access stolen phones, and so on.

Its not just a privacy policy, its law. The electronic account belongs to the dead husband, and should be treated like any other assets. Just like his car, you cannot transfer ownership to the partner unless the partner can prove they have legal authority - which typically requires Probate (or letters of administration if you die without a Will).

From what I can see, Apple is taking correct path here.

MikeAqua

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#2034187 12-Jun-2018 10:05

Wiggum:

There is also an assumption here that the dead man would be happy to hand over all data on his iphone. This is not the case and he deserves his privacy too.

I can see this perspective too. There is the risk that a deceased person's data contains something about them they wouldn't want their family to know.

But generally when you die all your personal chattels become your partners (unless your will says otherwise). IANAL but I would think that involves digital property like personal photos.

Mike

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#2034216 12-Jun-2018 10:50

Again, didn't watch the video, but I do wonder if having Power of Attorney would have made any difference in this case? I know it is something me and my wife are going to organise, to help with access to bank accounts etc if one of us keels over suddenly.

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#2034246 12-Jun-2018 11:13

I kind of agree with apple on this. If he wanted his wife etc to have access then he would have given her the password. What happens if there is something on that device that he never wanted her to ever see. Now that he has gone he can not explain anything that might be on that device.

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