iOS8 thoughts.

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#1108444 14-Aug-2014 15:00

ajobbins:
surfisup1000:

Home automation API -- early days yet, but apple has the market power to make a common standard.

Except that Apple never do that. They always make their own proprietary standard, that will only work with Apple kit. They only use open standards when they absolutely HAVE to, and they prefer to use their own and lock you into their platform.

Apple in the past isn't always going to be Apple in the future. SJ has gone, its another era now.

In terms of Home Automation API, I dont that's an issue at all. Apple won't be doing that. What they will be doing is providing one app or kit that has all the many Home Auitomation manufacturers proprietary protocols into one app, Homekit. Users won't need 14 apps, Apple will take care of that mess with all the protocols in the app, the user, can just setup his/her automated lights and forget about the technicalities. That's a major, as very few people are geeks or want to be.

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#1109228 15-Aug-2014 19:13

into one app, Homekit. Users won't need 14 apps, Apple will take care of that mess with all the protocols in the app, the user, can just setup his/her automated lights and forget about the technicalities.

Agree. Apple's main market is the ease of use, want it to "just work" crowd, so if they're plugging home automation, the all in one / easy as route will definitely be where they're aiming...

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#1120489 2-Sep-2014 14:04

So does anyone think the recently leaked photo's being ascribed to an iCloud hack will impact this release cycle at all?

clicknz

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#1120515 2-Sep-2014 14:33

Need some facts... was it iCloud or was it cloud and someone thought iCloud would get more clicks? iCloud doesn't actually hold photos... but Photostream does. A new device connecting to your Photostream sends alerts to your other devices.... it'll be interesting to find out (if we ever do) exactly what happened here, but it does seem that Apple's iCloud was vulnerable to a brute force (multiple attempts at password) attack.

If it's connected to the internet, it's out there....

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Mike

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SumnerBoy

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#1120546 2-Sep-2014 15:26

tdgeek: In terms of Home Automation API, I dont that's an issue at all. Apple won't be doing that. What they will be doing is providing one app or kit that has all the many Home Auitomation manufacturers proprietary protocols into one app, Homekit. Users won't need 14 apps, Apple will take care of that mess with all the protocols in the app, the user, can just setup his/her automated lights and forget about the technicalities. That's a major, as very few people are geeks or want to be.

The big problem I see, from someone who has toyed alot with various home automation technologies, is that HomeKit won't make it easy for DIYers to integrate. Sure if you are a big corporation and can afford to pay the license fees you will be able to build something very slick. But at the moment a vast majority of all the clever stuff being done in home automation is being done by tinkerers and the open source community. Even very popular products like Vera and SmartThings get most of their clever/useful features from user developed apps and extensions.

There are just so many different devices and ways to automate your home, that I just get the feeling the concept of HomeKit will mean a decent chunk of the creativity that has gotten HA to where it is now, will be excluded. Because people like me won't be able to get access to the HomeKit API.

I am all for making a rock-solid API, and a slick UI that I am sure Apple will provide with HomeKit, but they need to allow everyone access to it in order to really leverage the HA community which is gathering momentum every day.

tdgeek

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#1120954 3-Sep-2014 07:53

SumnerBoy:
tdgeek: In terms of Home Automation API, I dont that's an issue at all. Apple won't be doing that. What they will be doing is providing one app or kit that has all the many Home Auitomation manufacturers proprietary protocols into one app, Homekit. Users won't need 14 apps, Apple will take care of that mess with all the protocols in the app, the user, can just setup his/her automated lights and forget about the technicalities. That's a major, as very few people are geeks or want to be.

The big problem I see, from someone who has toyed alot with various home automation technologies, is that HomeKit won't make it easy for DIYers to integrate. Sure if you are a big corporation and can afford to pay the license fees you will be able to build something very slick. But at the moment a vast majority of all the clever stuff being done in home automation is being done by tinkerers and the open source community. Even very popular products like Vera and SmartThings get most of their clever/useful features from user developed apps and extensions.

There are just so many different devices and ways to automate your home, that I just get the feeling the concept of HomeKit will mean a decent chunk of the creativity that has gotten HA to where it is now, will be excluded. Because people like me won't be able to get access to the HomeKit API.

I am all for making a rock-solid API, and a slick UI that I am sure Apple will provide with HomeKit, but they need to allow everyone access to it in order to really leverage the HA community which is gathering momentum every day.

I'd wait and see. It may be as simple as submitting your "app" to Apple, having it vetted, and them adding support so that the Homekit app will talk to your gear. I'm not sure if Apple would be targeting licence fees as the revenue would be minuscule, I expect they would want as many HA devices running with their app, so that their Homekit app is the goto app for the public. This will help drive Apple device purchases. Which is what they do.

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SumnerBoy

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#1120960 3-Sep-2014 08:11

tdgeek: I'd wait and see. It may be as simple as submitting your "app" to Apple, having it vetted, and them adding support so that the Homekit app will talk to your gear. I'm not sure if Apple would be targeting licence fees as the revenue would be minuscule, I expect they would want as many HA devices running with their app, so that their Homekit app is the goto app for the public. This will help drive Apple device purchases. Which is what they do.

I hope you are right, but I can't see it working that way. The average home tinkerer is not going to submit their 'Arduino running MQTT connected to 14 different sensors' to Apple for inclusion with HomeKit. They just need to have access to the API specifications which will enable them to write a bridge between HomeKit and their 'creation'.

I have already seen one project whereby a company is advertising a bridge of this nature. Effectively just a device that sits between the outside world and HomeKit, to allow you to interface your projects with the Apple ecosystem. This might be the only way, and might end up working quite well hopefully. Check it out at http://www.homekitbridge.com/.

Will be very interesting to see how this plays out...

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#1121130 3-Sep-2014 13:39

I guess I just want my usual request from Apple, the ability to use an MP3 or music Playlist for the Alarm/Incomming Call notification. The ability to have the alarm use an Internet radio station would be good as well.

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PhantomNVD

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#1121145 3-Sep-2014 13:54

SumnerBoy:
tdgeek: I'd wait and see. It may be as simple as submitting your "app" to Apple, having it vetted, and them adding support so that the Homekit app will talk to your gear. I'm not sure if Apple would be targeting licence fees as the revenue would be minuscule, I expect they would want as many HA devices running with their app, so that their Homekit app is the goto app for the public. This will help drive Apple device purchases. Which is what they do.

I hope you are right, but I can't see it working that way. The average home tinkerer is not going to submit their 'Arduino running MQTT connected to 14 different sensors' to Apple for inclusion with HomeKit. They just need to have access to the API specifications which will enable them to write a bridge between HomeKit and their 'creation'.

I have already seen one project whereby a company is advertising a bridge of this nature. Effectively just a device that sits between the outside world and HomeKit, to allow you to interface your projects with the Apple ecosystem. This might be the only way, and might end up working quite well hopefully. Check it out at http://www.homekitbridge.com/.

Will be very interesting to see how this plays out...

so wouldn't the rasberryPi be the best 'interface' for these sort of people?

essentially create an app to send RPi the instructions, and link everything else back to this open-source configurable device :)

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#1121151 3-Sep-2014 14:03

PhantomNVD: so wouldn't the rasberryPi be the best 'interface' for these sort of people?

essentially create an app to send RPi the instructions, and link everything else back to this open-source configurable device :)

Yes, most probably. That and Arduino perhaps? If there was an RPi addon board, or Arduino shield, that had the necessary HomeKit chips/hardware (I believe you actually need some piece of hardware to interface with HomeKit, but could well be wrong) then that would open up a whole range of applications that could integrate with HomeKit/Siri etc.

Whether Apple would allow this sort of thing remains to be seen, and therein lies the problem with this - Apple has the final say, as they always do, about what is IN and what is OUT. Such a 'closed shop' solution just doesn't seem like it will offer enough flexibility to really take the world by storm - in terms of home automation. There are just too many different protocols and technologies already available, and goodness knows how many more to come.

Plus all this stuff will only work on iOS devices, which rules out a vast percentage of smart devices worldwide. I can see this stuff becoming main stream and a lot of people will no doubt get caught up in the hype, but in reality I think it falls a long way short of being something that will revolutionise home automation long term.

Something like the Alljoyn Alliance (https://www.alljoyn.org/) is far more progressive, since its whole philosophy is to allow many different devices and technologies to talk to one another using a common protocol. This is the sort of thing that if adopted by all the big players could really take HA to the next stage. And they have already got Samsung, Sony and Microsoft on board (to name but a few).

Sorry for going a bit OT... ;)

tdgeek

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#1121160 3-Sep-2014 14:17

Hmmm
If apple create Homekit, then naturally it will only be on iOS and I assume OSX. I thought the issue was there are so many protocols, and Homekit handles that inside the app, rather than having many apps for many devices. If Windows did this it will only be on Windows, same with Android and Windows Phone. So it's actually no more than integration? Or am I missing something?

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#1121166 3-Sep-2014 14:29

PhantomNVD: So does anyone think the recently leaked photo's being ascribed to an iCloud hack will impact this release cycle at all?

In terms of product release, no. Doubt it will affect sales either tbh, just maybe less nudie shots being taken!

It seems pretty definitive already that iCloud itself was not breached, but the idea that people were able to use brute force on one aspect of the login process was a pretty big oversight. Fixed now of course.

SumnerBoy

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#1121167 3-Sep-2014 14:32

tdgeek: Hmmm
If apple create Homekit, then naturally it will only be on iOS and I assume OSX. I thought the issue was there are so many protocols, and Homekit handles that inside the app, rather than having many apps for many devices. If Windows did this it will only be on Windows, same with Android and Windows Phone. So it's actually no more than integration? Or am I missing something?

I could well be wrong, as I am not a member of the HomeKit developers group and have not seen anything related to it, but my understanding is there is both a hardware and software component. Anyone wanting to be HomeKit approved will have to have a piece of Apple hardware embedded in their device to enable it to 'speak HomeKit'. This is similar to how Z-Wave works. Then any iOS8 app can speak to that device via the HomeKit API.

As I say, I could be wrong, but this is my current understanding of how it all fits together.

So it is a bit more than just integration, it is trying to get a whole host of different HA technologies to speak the same language, but with strict control on who is 'allowed' to speak that language. Which of course, eliminates all the tinkerers and DIYers from enhancing and extending the integration...

tdgeek

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#1121170 3-Sep-2014 14:35

SumnerBoy:
tdgeek: Hmmm
If apple create Homekit, then naturally it will only be on iOS and I assume OSX. I thought the issue was there are so many protocols, and Homekit handles that inside the app, rather than having many apps for many devices. If Windows did this it will only be on Windows, same with Android and Windows Phone. So it's actually no more than integration? Or am I missing something?

I could well be wrong, as I am not a member of the HomeKit developers group and have not seen anything related to it, but my understanding is there is both a hardware and software component. Anyone wanting to be HomeKit approved will have to have a piece of Apple hardware embedded in their device to enable it to 'speak HomeKit'. This is similar to how Z-Wave works. Then any iOS8 app can speak to that device via the HomeKit API.

As I say, I could be wrong, but this is my current understanding of how it all fits together.

So it is a bit more than just integration, it is trying to get a whole host of different HA technologies to speak the same language, but with strict control on who is 'allowed' to speak that language. Which of course, eliminates all the tinkerers and DIYers from enhancing and extending the integration...

Ah I see. In that case I hope not as a fridge or light maker would not want to add hardware for each platform, and my choice of brands may well be reduced if I needed an Apple capable light

SumnerBoy

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#1121171 3-Sep-2014 14:36

Exactly ;).

But as I say, I could well be wrong - that is just my current take on it...

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