iPhone 8 - no Touch ID?

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Paul1977

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#222509 15-Aug-2017 09:00

I know it's all rumours at the moment, but the general consensus seems to now be that the iPhone 8 will be ditching Touch ID completely, rather than having it under the screen like was originally thought.

Assuming this is true, what are everyone's thoughts on Touch ID be completely replaced with facial recognition?

I often unlock my phone when looking at it from an extreme angle (e.g. sitting flat on my desk at arms reach), so unless they use incredibly wide angle sensors I think this will be a pain to use in many situations as it will require me to lean over the phone or pick it up.

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#1846868 15-Aug-2017 09:18

Once again, if rumours are to be believed, the facial recognition is pretty advanced including 3d and infrared scanning. Don't know if this gets around your issue of off-axis recognition though.
Do iPhones have 'trusted device' or 'trusted location' like Android? It's only for unlocking I know, so you still need a biometric verification method for things like payment, but having a paired Apple Watch would at least allow easy unlocking.

Edit: Same rumour mill has it that the in screen scanner will possibly be in next year's Samsung S9 or more likely the Note 9. Gives Apple the breathing space to deliver the same in the same year.

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Paul1977

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#1846894 15-Aug-2017 09:41

Dingbatt: Once again, if rumours are to be believed, the facial recognition is pretty advanced including 3d and infrared scanning. Don't know if this gets around your issue of off-axis recognition though.
Do iPhones have 'trusted device' or 'trusted location' like Android? It's only for unlocking I know, so you still need a biometric verification method for things like payment, but having a paired Apple Watch would at least allow easy unlocking.

Edit: Same rumour mill has it that the in screen scanner will possibly be in next year's Samsung S9 or more likely the Note 9. Gives Apple the breathing space to deliver the same in the same year.

As it stands right now iOS doesn't have a 'trusted location' feature.

If Apple does ditch Touch ID for the iPhone 8 I can't see them putting it back into later models, that would be an admission of failure. I'm sure the rumoured 7S will have it, but omission from the flagship iPhone 8 would basically be them committing to facial recognition as it's successor.

Presumably the facial recognition would be used for Apple Pay (and anything else that currently uses biometrics) as well, but I'm not sure what a good implementation of that would be.

Behodar

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#1846899 15-Aug-2017 09:49

Paul1977: what are everyone's thoughts on Touch ID be completely replaced with facial recognition?

I currently have Touch ID disabled; it doesn't seem to like my fingers. So I certainly won't miss it! If facial recognition works more reliably then that'll be a good thing. If it's less reliable then I'll continue to use a PIN. So, personally, things will either get better or stay the same.

With that said, I'm fully aware that my usage does not match everyone else's. Apple probably knows what it's doing though, and we'll probably know for sure in a few weeks :)

Benjip

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#1846901 15-Aug-2017 09:51

I'm thinking that for Apple Pay and some previously-Touch ID features, they might still have a Touch ID icon appear on the screen. A virtual fingerprint, if that makes sense, but the security aspect actually uses your face to unlock.

Otherwise there will be all sorts of issues such as "Look at the camera to confirm this in-game payment of $999"…

And then, for the iPhone 9, they can bring back actual Touch ID (embedded under the screen, with the exact same appearance as what I just theorised), without too much of an admission that they removed it prematurely in the iPhone 8.

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#1846909 15-Aug-2017 09:58

Dingbatt: Do iPhones have 'trusted device' or 'trusted location' like Android? It's only for unlocking ...

Not AFAIK

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Paul1977

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#1846921 15-Aug-2017 10:39

Behodar:

I currently have Touch ID disabled; it doesn't seem to like my fingers. So I certainly won't miss it! If facial recognition works more reliably then that'll be a good thing. If it's less reliable then I'll continue to use a PIN. So, personally, things will either get better or stay the same.

With that said, I'm fully aware that my usage does not match everyone else's. Apple probably knows what it's doing though, and we'll probably know for sure in a few weeks :)

I didn't have a 6S, but the 2nd generation Touch ID on the 7 (for me anyway) is amazingly fast and reliable.

It sounds like the ultimate goal moving forward was always facial recognition and it is technical issues with putting Touch ID under the glass that is preventing them from having a transitional generation with both. The facial recognition may well be very good, but it seems like a risky move. Would make more sense to have both until they are ready with 2nd generation facial recognition once it has been proven superior.

Although, if the alternative to no Touch ID is having it on the back... I wouldn't like that either!

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alasta

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#1846928 15-Aug-2017 10:56

I find touch ID really fast and reliable, except when I have moisture on my fingers. Facial recognition seems like a solution looking for a problem, and iPhones are already complicated enough.

dickytim

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#1846970 15-Aug-2017 11:59

I am unsure of the facial recognition idea, and it does concern me a bit, I am quite likely to buy an iPhone8 so long as it doesn't end up at $3000!

Luckily in NZ we are not likely to get one in the first wave, and I will be getting mine from JB Hifi as I have a voucher for them, so based on rumours it will be after xmas!

Hopefully this will give it a chance to settle and I can see if it is worth it or not. I really do hope touch ID stays, apart from mentioned above where the finger prints don't work with wet hands!

wellygary

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#1846972 15-Aug-2017 12:00

facial recognition for Apple pay will be a bag of hammers for Apple,

They have so far sold touch Id authentication on the whole "Secure enclave" within the button,

I can't see them trying to make the camera a new secure unit ?,

Also didn't they just introduce touch ID to macbooks with the touchbar?,

why do this if you are gonna junk it for facial recognition in a year or two??

alasta

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#1846984 15-Aug-2017 12:22

The other problem with facial recognition is that it would be easy to circumvent. What's to stop someone else gaining access by showing the device a photo of you?

dickytim

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#1846986 15-Aug-2017 12:27

3D capabilities...

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Paul1977

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#1846990 15-Aug-2017 12:31

alasta:

The other problem with facial recognition is that it would be easy to circumvent. What's to stop someone else gaining access by showing the device a photo of you?

It is actually very secure, utilising multiple cameras to create a 3D image and IR.

I'm just concerned it will be trading increased security for ease of use.

mattwnz

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#1847031 15-Aug-2017 13:57

There could be a touch ID going into either the back, or the side power button, as the button is bigger. Infact other manufacturers but it into the side power button, so I think that is the better place. I believe ideally they want it under the screen, but they couldn't get it working right in time. So I suspect they will bring it under the screen on newer gen models, and the new one could end up with it either removed, or on the back or side.

Dairyxox

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#1847038 15-Aug-2017 14:00

I cant see many banks supporting Apple Pay being happy about having fingerprint switched for facial recognition, unless its super amazingly good.

Peoples faces change more than their fingerprints too. Wouldn't be much fun having a transaction denied after a big night out, having a hangover, looking worse for wear.

IMHO the solution is putting the fingerprint sensor on the back, like lots of android phones. None of the leaks/rumors currently entertain this idea.

mattwnz

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#1847039 15-Aug-2017 14:01

dickytim:

I am unsure of the facial recognition idea, and it does concern me a bit, I am quite likely to buy an iPhone8 so long as it doesn't end up at $3000!

Luckily in NZ we are not likely to get one in the first wave, and I will be getting mine from JB Hifi as I have a voucher for them, so based on rumours it will be after xmas!

Hopefully this will give it a chance to settle and I can see if it is worth it or not. I really do hope touch ID stays, apart from mentioned above where the finger prints don't work with wet hands!

There are going to be two versions this time though. One will be the 7s, which will will probably name iphone 8, and they will likely have an LCD screen, and be somewhat similar to the 7. Except it will have a glass back and allow wireless charging. It will also probably have touch ID on the front like the iphone 7. Then they will have the 10th anniversary iphone 'edition', which is essentially an iphone pro. It will have a OLED screen that is almost edge to edge except there is a cutout at the top for cameras and sensors etc . This is all speculation of course;) But there have been so many leaks, it makes me wonder how, when other products they sell have zero leaks.

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