Orcon genius seems a bit thick to me.

Forums › 2degrees (including Slingshot, Orcon, Flip, Stuff Fibre, MyRepublic, 2talk and Vocus) › Orcon genius seems a bit thick to me.

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6434 posts

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#496494 22-Jul-2011 00:23

richms: If I was in a postition to want a phone I cant take out with me, then I would consider it had I not already got a crapload of ATAs and phones already.

The buyout fee is minimal compared to the savings on paying for telecoms obsolete product. 5 months worth at the $40 saving, less if you have services that telecom rip you off on like caller ID which IMO should be free nowdays.

if it sucks and they cant make it work, the contract duration is meaningless. If it works by month 5 you are where you would be if you stayed with telecom. month 6 you can cancel and still save.

The biggest concern I have with these is that there is a lockin on toll provider, with not very appealing rates to be honest. Why do other telcos get away with forcing you to use their toll service but telecom have to let you choose?

I saw the '$40' number quoted by Orcon, but where does it actually come from?
Vodafone, for example, do 45GB with landline )(not VOIP, normal landline) for $90 and that also includes waaaay better calling rates than this VOIP solution (I thought the whole point of VOIP was cheap calling? apparently Orcon don't think so) so at best the saving is $20 compared to Vodafone, not $40, but it isn't even a fair comparison since voda gives 50% more data and better calling than the Orcon offer

richms

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#496495 22-Jul-2011 00:25

cheaper than a landline, and DSL plan was the way I thought it was calculated?

Richard rich.ms

garryk

45 posts

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#496498 22-Jul-2011 00:58

In my case the $40 saving is simply the difference between what I currently pay Orcon + Telecom for Internet and PSTN Landline services respectively, compared to what Orcon's new offering would cost. Agreed there may be cheaper plans available elsewhere, but I'm not on them!

I can see a day coming where I won't need a fixed landline, but I'm not quite there yet. In the meantime, after doing the maths, I agree with richms. I would only need to use the new Orcon plan for about 4-5 months, then I would be ahead even if I did have to cancel early.

Still, am going to compare some other options, like WxC and Voda, for completeness.

martyyates

68 posts

Master Geek

#496630 22-Jul-2011 12:19

NonprayingMantis:
I saw the '$40' number quoted by Orcon, but where does it actually come from?
Vodafone, for example, do 45GB with landline )(not VOIP, normal landline) for $90 and that also includes waaaay better calling rates than this VOIP solution (I thought the whole point of VOIP was cheap calling? apparently Orcon don't think so) so at best the saving is $20 compared to Vodafone, not $40, but it isn't even a fair comparison since voda gives 50% more data and better calling than the Orcon offer

hmmm - I disagree. I am with Voda and just checked their rates which are very very similar to what Orcon are offering. $95 / month on Orcon with Genius gives you 50GB cf. Voda $100 / mth = 45GB and landline.

I am looking to move to Orcon from our current naked DSL for the VOIP plus a new toy.

NonprayingMantis

6434 posts

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#496655 22-Jul-2011 13:04

martyyates:
NonprayingMantis:
I saw the '$40' number quoted by Orcon, but where does it actually come from?
Vodafone, for example, do 45GB with landline )(not VOIP, normal landline) for $90 and that also includes waaaay better calling rates than this VOIP solution (I thought the whole point of VOIP was cheap calling? apparently Orcon don't think so) so at best the saving is $20 compared to Vodafone, not $40, but it isn't even a fair comparison since voda gives 50% more data and better calling than the Orcon offer

hmmm - I disagree. I am with Voda and just checked their rates which are very very similar to what Orcon are offering. $95 / month on Orcon with Genius gives you 50GB cf. Voda $100 / mth = 45GB and landline.

I am looking to move to Orcon from our current naked DSL for the VOIP plus a new toy.

what are you disagreeing with?

As a direct comparison for broadband plus a landline it is no way $40 more expensive than the Orcon plan. Even the example you quote is only $5 more on Voda, yes for slightly less data but waaaay better calling rates AND one free unlimited number.

martyyates

68 posts

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#496738 22-Jul-2011 14:32

VF's calling rates; basically the same or slightly worse than Orcon's.

NonprayingMantis

6434 posts

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#496750 22-Jul-2011 14:47

martyyates: VF's calling rates; basically the same or slightly worse than Orcon's.

VF calls to mobiles = 36c and pick one number for unlimited calling

Orcon calls to mobiles = 43c and no unlimited

that's around a 20% premium for the priviledge of using VOIP with Orcon, which is supposed tobe cheaper than PSTN

calls to landlines works out about the same depending on your mix of long vs short calls

Orcon is 19c with a $2.95 cap
Voda is 26c but only a $2.50 cap.

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isphell

63 posts

Master Geek

#496842 22-Jul-2011 17:33

Well I got excited about this because this is the first time I have heard of an option that allows you to drop the landline rental which of course makes all the difference in the world so I am scratching my head as to how this obvious point as been missed by so many here???????

isphell

63 posts

Master Geek

#496859 22-Jul-2011 18:07

So is this a case of people overestimating how smart they are or what????

The last time I looked into this you could still not escape the telecom landline rental, in fact it was against the law, if you wanted internet through a phoneline or any services connected to it like skype etc... then you had to pay telecom the monthly rental fee regardless of whether you used the landline for phone or not. It was maybe was up to 12 months ago that I last checked all this.

kyhwana2

2566 posts

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#496872 22-Jul-2011 18:24

isphell: So is this a case of people overestimating how smart they are or what????

The last time I looked into this you could still not escape the telecom landline rental, in fact it was against the law, if you wanted internet through a phoneline or any services connected to it like skype etc... then you had to pay telecom the monthly rental fee regardless of whether you used the landline for phone or not. It was maybe was up to 12 months ago that I last checked all this.

Uh, that's not true at all. i've had Naked DSL for years now..

There's two different things though.

You might be meaning that with wholesale naked DSL you're still paying telecom, since your ISP is renting the DSLAM from telecom. But you're only paying whatever the wholesale rate for a "naked dsl wholesale line" from telecom/chorus/etc is. Not the landline rate.

There's ULL Naked DSL, which is where an ISP has their own gear in the exchange (or cabinet, if they can be bothered) and they don't pay telecom anything. (As far as im aware?)

isphell

63 posts

Master Geek

#496879 22-Jul-2011 18:35

As far as I knew you had to rent the landline from telecom before you can get adsl or whatever, you could not bypass this before, you had to have a voice phoneline before you could have internet and that at the moments costs $50 a month paid to telecom regardless of where you want to use a voice landline phone.

isphell

63 posts

Master Geek

#496880 22-Jul-2011 18:39

So when you say you have had it for years, how many, time goes fast so maybe I am out of date by a couple of years but would be surprised if it was any longer.

isphell

63 posts

Master Geek

#496885 22-Jul-2011 18:46

Or maybe I did not take much notice before because the pricing was such that there was no advantage unlike this new genius thing which unfortunately is not available in my area as I have just found out, is it only in areas offering adsl2?

richms

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#496889 22-Jul-2011 19:04

There certainly was an advantage long before the orcon genius came along. Snap charge $55 for a 5 gig naked DSL plan, thats only about $10 more than a useless landline. If you wanted to get internet on a PSTN line you would be looking at $70 at least to start with, slightly less if you get the PSTN from a reseller of telecoms wholsesale service that is selling at a lower price in the hope of making it up in the toll spend.

I got onto naked DSL basically as soon as it came along. I resent having to pay for an obsolete service just to get the service I want.

I read online that in canada tiered selling like telecom do with internet is illegal, in that a cable company cannot make you buy a TV package inorder to get the internet service. I would like to see the charges in NZ broken down into pair rental, analog dialtone and DSL, with the pair rental being the one that vairies between urban and rural.

Sadly the loudmouth farmers who think the rest of the country owe them subsidies etc will never let that get thru, they like paying the same as us urban dwellers and making us all subsidize their desire to live in the middle of nowhere.

Richard rich.ms

old3eyes

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#496894 22-Jul-2011 19:13

richms: There certainly was an advantage long before the orcon genius came along. Snap charge $55 for a 5 gig naked DSL plan, thats only about $10 more than a useless landline. If you wanted to get internet on a PSTN line you would be looking at $70 at least to start with, slightly less if you get the PSTN from a reseller of telecoms wholsesale service that is selling at a lower price in the hope of making it up in the toll spend.

I got onto naked DSL basically as soon as it came along. I resent having to pay for an obsolete service just to get the service I want.

I read online that in canada tiered selling like telecom do with internet is illegal, in that a cable company cannot make you buy a TV package inorder to get the internet service. I would like to see the charges in NZ broken down into pair rental, analog dialtone and DSL, with the pair rental being the one that vairies between urban and rural.

Sadly the loudmouth farmers who think the rest of the country owe them subsidies etc will never let that get thru, they like paying the same as us urban dwellers and making us all subsidize their desire to live in the middle of nowhere.

What's so wrong with the "Obsolete analog fone service"?? It was the only thing that seemed to work in Christchurch after the Feb earthquake.

You seem to have a bit of a chip on your shoulder about Telecom NZ..

Regards,

Old3eyes

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