EPG Madness

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ADKM

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#105525 5-Jul-2012 22:29

I *knew* this would happen ! But was hoping someone at EPG would use some intelligence, but obviously not.

TV3+ 1 has always been a pain, and Tv1+1 is now just as bad.

Setting a recording automatically flags it to record on the +1 channel. But sometimes (all too often) the first recording fails to start and the second one is activated.

This stops what ever else may be recording (or set to start) that one hour later and YOU MISS IT.
Also if you stop a recording early there's more trouble one hour later when +1 takes over

Dunno if this is with everything, but certainly with the Panasonic gear, who say they've no control over it but did point out the problem to Freeview/EPG who weren't interested.

It was bad enough with TV3 but having in on one as well is intorerable. What can one do ?

Is there any way to disable a channel from the EPG?

Cheers - Kirk

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#651596 5-Jul-2012 23:20

ADKM:

Is there any way to disable a channel from the EPG?

Not the official freeview MHEG5 one. That's a closed shop and is the pride and joy of freeview...

ADKM

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#651601 5-Jul-2012 23:39

I see... gosh how much better off we'd all be if Freeview never existed. What a pack of morons they are and the manufacturers are all in bed with them. Sickening.

Cheers - Kirk

Jaxson

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#651660 6-Jul-2012 08:36

ADKM: I see... gosh how much better off we'd all be if Freeview never existed. What a pack of morons they are and the manufacturers are all in bed with them. Sickening.

I think what freeview is and is not, hasn't been well defined, at least to the public. Past Geekzone Q and A's with freeview have confirmed this, with most tricky questions being redirected back to the broadcasters.

Personally I don't see the need for it now the analogue TV signals are being switched off. Sooner or later you're going to have to migrate to digital TV or not receive anything at all. I like the idea of freeview being an advertising campaign to let people know what's coming, but that whole going digital site seems to be covering this.

Freeview seems to be honestly pushing itself as a product, but I think that's rather unnecessary, as in it should simply be the future of free to air TV in NZ. I don't think the FTA vs SKY battle is now any different just because FTA is now on a digital platform too. As always the FTA vs SKY products are totally different content, especially around live sports. Anyone buying Freeview as an alternative to SKY's content will be hugely disappointed. They are not the same thing.

Being freeview approved should be a good line for them to push, given it should cover standardisation/minimum hardware specs and behaviours etc. However, even this part is a bit off. Freeview approved tends to mean it has to use the fixed MHEG5 EPG and have a bunch of useful features disabled. When pushed about plain dumb behaviours in my JC Matthews PVR, specifically relating to freeview MHEG5 EPG, they didn't want to know about it, saying it was a manufacturer issue. Given their logo was on the front of the device, and it was a problem with their EPG in a unit approved to their requirements you'd expect them to give a damn.

I'm not even sure freeview themselves know what exactly it is that they do.

xarqi

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#651754 6-Jul-2012 11:04

ADKM: I see... gosh how much better off we'd all be if Freeview never existed. What a pack of morons they are and the manufacturers are all in bed with them. Sickening.

Hey - don't hold back! Tell us how you REALLY feel. ;)

Ragnor

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#651775 6-Jul-2012 11:29

ADKM:

TV3+ 1 has always been a pain, and Tv1+1 is now just as bad.

Setting a recording automatically flags it to record on the +1 channel. But sometimes (all too often) the first recording fails to start and the second one is activated.

This stops what ever else may be recording (or set to start) that one hour later and YOU MISS IT.
Also if you stop a recording early there's more trouble one hour later when +1 takes over

Dunno if this is with everything, but certainly with the Panasonic gear, who say they've no control over it but did point out the problem to Freeview/EPG who weren't interested.

Are you sure this is EPG's fault? If so how?

It sounds like problems with Panasonic's software to me.

butlerboy

457 posts

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#651790 6-Jul-2012 11:46

Ragnor:
ADKM:

TV3+ 1 has always been a pain, and Tv1+1 is now just as bad.

Setting a recording automatically flags it to record on the +1 channel. But sometimes (all too often) the first recording fails to start and the second one is activated.

This stops what ever else may be recording (or set to start) that one hour later and YOU MISS IT.
Also if you stop a recording early there's more trouble one hour later when +1 takes over

Dunno if this is with everything, but certainly with the Panasonic gear, who say they've no control over it but did point out the problem to Freeview/EPG who weren't interested.

Are you sure this is EPG's fault? If so how?

It sounds like problems with Panasonic's software to me.

+1 for a problem with the panasonic software.
both my magic tv and jc matthews pvrs haven't had any issues with recording tv1 since tv1+1 started.

ADKM

860 posts

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#651896 6-Jul-2012 14:27

xarqi:Hey - don't hold back! Tell us how you REALLY feel. ;)

Ha ha, most certainly will, in fact I'm just composing a letter for the Minister of Broadcasting (or modern equivalent) and for a bit of fun an email to Fair Go. Bet they won't touch it !

Are you sure this is EPG's fault? If so how?

It sounds like problems with Panasonic's software to me.

Initially , no but after talking to Panasonic they confirmed the problem was known and discussed at a meeting with Freeview and others, but their concerns were disregarded. I've heard of it happening with other brands as well. In order to use the EPG, they need to licence and obtain Freeview approval (read Freeview Crippling, which is what is really is) and must comply with all of freeviews requirements. One of which is the disabling of time shift to make it harder for the user to skip ads. Isn't that lovely?

The EPG controls timer recording, apart from real-time manual setting. There is no way to setup a recording in advance. The cue to start comes from the EPG, if that fails it'll record the +1 channel an hour later, stopping any other event you may have. With the 380 having two Tuners, only one stops and records the +1 channel.

A further issue, but far less common, is the recording finishing early. Is this because the 'stop' cue has failed? Is there such a thing even? You can extend the time but again not in advance, only in real time. But how can you tell in advance you're going to miss the end?

I object to a product that decides what to do and overrides a setting the user has made. It's crazy you cannot set an recording to stop/start by time and have the machine comply. The reason is political.
The EPG, ruled by Freeview (that is, the Channels and one other group I forget) control what and when you can record, potentially giving them the ability to inhibit any programme they don't want you to record. Maybe that is their right, but don't you get the feeling you're being conned just a bit? You bought the DVD-R but they'll decide what and how you use it.

The chap who said he doesn't have the problem - you'll never get it until a recording fails and +1 kicks in, and even then it won't matter unless you have another event scheduled for that time and subsequently lose it.

Cheers - Kirk

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nickt

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#651902 6-Jul-2012 14:40

Panasonics must work quite differently. From the user perspective the MagicTV boxes have a todo list which is generated from your requests to record programs. You can configure the amount of time to record before and after each scheduled program start/stop (globally, and by recording). It also has two tuners and can resolve conflicts, eg if the tuners are going to be in use when you set up a new TV1 recording then it'll look to see if the replay on TV1+1 is better. If you record a series it doesn't record it twice in a row. ie each episode has a unique ID in the EPG, and it's smart enough to not duplicate or look at alternate times.

AFAICT it doesn't take anything from the EPG other the data for a program, and derives the current time from somewhere (dunno if that's the EPG or something else embedded in the signal, but it goes away if you unplug the aerial).

The ball is in your court, Panasonic.

ADKM

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#651920 6-Jul-2012 15:12

nickt:
AFAICT it doesn't take anything from the EPG other the data for a program.

By data, you mean the start and stop times ?

The Panasonic 380 has a similar mix of features, conflict resolution etc and other good stuff. The +1 business is the only major problem. And being to remove, or re-order the channels. Probably another Freeview imposed restraint.

Cheers - Kirk

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#651935 6-Jul-2012 15:37

I am sorry but I am with Ragnor, Butlerboy and nickt here. You have been fobbed off by Panasonic. The issues you are describing can, and should be, fixed by Panasonic and do not show any issue with the EPG just bad handling of the data by Panasonic. As pointed out other devices handle it fine so I suggest you go back to Panasonic and ask them why other devices do not have the same problems their software does.

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sbiddle

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#651949 6-Jul-2012 15:54

Panasonic are fobbing you off. If you're unhappy with their reponse take the box back for a refund and buy something that isn't buggy and works correctly.

ADKM

860 posts

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#651975 6-Jul-2012 16:31

Are we sure other devices don't do it, or have they just not noticed it yet?

A simple test will show if you set TV1 or 3 to record via the EPG, does it also set 1+1 or 3+1 to record?
Then, the first recording must fail to start and you be recording something else on all tuners that one hour later - to know what will happen.

I can only go on user experience and what I'm told. And when its a big wig at Panasonic, you tend to
believe him. He wasn't just the guy who answered the phone, but a Manager of some kind. He went into a lot of detail about the quality of the signal and how the EPG data was vital, and only when that was lost or corrupted would a recording fail to start at the time due. (And consequently switch to +1). And he was adamant this was caused by Freeview and how they'd set it up, and there was nothing Panasonic could do about it.

If that is NOT correct, that changes things considerably.

Cheers - Kirk

sbiddle

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#652009 6-Jul-2012 17:28

I would suggest reading through the technical spec documents on the Freeview site detailing the requirements, and how CRID and series CRID's are used to link shows, and how the EIT EPG is used once recording starts.

These documents are freely available, and will give you a lot more detail on how things work, because some of your assumptions and statements above are incorrect.

ADKM

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#652013 6-Jul-2012 17:34

sbiddle: some of your assumptions and statements above are incorrect.

Can you say which or what is incorrect ?

Cheers - Kirk

sbiddle

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#652019 6-Jul-2012 17:43

ADKM:
sbiddle: some of your assumptions and statements above are incorrect.

Can you say which or what is incorrect ?

Much of your understanding about how shows are scheduled, timeshifting, and blocking of skip functionality to name a few.

Time shifting isn't prohibited, and a minimum of a 30 min pause is required as is the ability to rewind for at least 30 minutes. Skip functionality also isn't prohibited, but must be a minimum of 600 seconds.

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