Sky blames piracy for lost customers. Sky: it's time to wake up and smell the coffee.

Forums › Sky, Neon, Lightbox › Sky blames piracy for lost customers. Sky: it's time to wake up and smell the coffee.

1 | ... | 39 | 40 | 41 | 42 | 43 | 44 | 45 | 46 | 47 | 48 | 49 | ... | 57

Awrrr
18663 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#1926924 30-Dec-2017 11:57

tdgeek:

We also watch most Sky stuff recorded. I see ads everywhere, its not just Sky or FTA.

Newspaper, webpages, billboards, and many many and so ons. Why are all these tolerated by us? We should have no ads. Then we wont know who is having a sale, what is on special, what event is coming up, what new TV series is starting soon.

Sorry, but you really are starting to sound like a Sky shill. Some advertising (very little these days) is simply informative. It just tells you what is being offered, and maybe the terms for acquiring it. I have no objection to that.

Most, nearly all, is motivational. It screams, prods, blackmails, turns your children against you, does everything except hold a gun to your head to try to compel you to purchase something you don't really need or want. This advertising I find despicable and have no patience for. I do everything possible to block it. As an aside, I find the commercials on New Zealand Free To Air particularly offensive. They rarely contain any wit or humour, like the bugger ads did. Mainly, they seem to think the way to get attention is to treat viewers like morons, or to scream louder. They always get the mute button from me. I am old school and particularly resent being screamed at.

Sky can't do anything about FTA crap, but it is in a league of its own when it comes to boring, repetitive, intrusive promos. People actually pay to have this experience? Unbelievable. Anywhere else in the world, pay TV means no ads. None. Nada. Only in the Sky universe do they try to eat from both sides of the table. The only reason I can think of that you find this practice in any way normal or acceptable is you have been brainwashed from birth. It is not normal and it is not acceptable. It is Sky greedily exploiting their no competition monopoly. Except now there is competition. The monopoly is gone. Thank goodness.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Benoire

2798 posts

Uber Geek

#1926925 30-Dec-2017 12:00

I have had Sky NZ for 7 years now (and sky UK for many before I moved here) and just subbed to Netflix on a months trial on my Mi Box (android TV 6.0). This is my current thinking:

Netflix

Pros

On-demand - when you want
HD Sub means all are HD
Portable - not linked to a single device or location
Netflix Originals
Lots of older movies, documentaries and TV shows, especially for kids
Relatively cheap
Not susceptible to atmospheric conditions.

Cons

Reliant on the internet - while I have VDSL in Urban Auckland, we have contention in the neighborhood and sometimes quality drops;
No FFW/RW - massive problem really, I hate skipping as you just can't find the bit you where looking for.
While a graphical interface, its all over the place really. The menu system is poor and it just floods programs across the screen. Accessing categories is harder than it should be IMHO and I look it and go 'meh'.
More users in the house will start to saturate bandwidth, e.g. four streams in HD will start to affect over internet usage and QoS and therefore potential streaming quality.
Internet goes out, no netflix.

Sky NZ

Pros

Sport channels in real time, without streaming issues. HD Sport channels are good too, better than BEin Connect EPL stuff
More up to date movies, with lots of re-runs
Pop up channels for events and holidays
A wide variety of channels, generally catering for most of my tastes.
full ffw/rw, easy to skip through recorded TV and adverts to find the right point easily.
Has on-demand either through website or box including downloading to the unit for less buffering
Satellite feed is generally more reliable than internet based
Linear programming - something always to watch when you turn the TV on, no need to think
DVB-S2 will feed the entire house (if multiple decoders) without stuttering or lag as its a constant stream.
Internet goes out, TV is still live.

Cons

Entire package is expensive, generally driven by sports and movies and hiding the real price of basic package.
Not entirely portable; the on-demand stuff is but the box isn't as it requires a satellite feed.
MySky HDi box is slow and cumbersome, needs a faster chipset to make it smoother or ideally updating to a newer android based system with tuners
Only select channels in HD, should be all but requires dropping DVBS feeds once all the old boxes are gone.
Adverts on non-Sky owned channels, e.g. Foxtel resell the Australia region Discovery/History etc. channels to Sky NZ I believe.
Susceptible to atmospheric conditions.

There are probably more, but that it for now.. Generally Netflix I am finding OK for older things that I've missed, Star Trek Discovery as this is only on Netflix, and a lot of the kids content.... Sky NZ is my preference as I'm a general viewer of mainstream content but enjoy watching new films and a massive sports fan. If I didn't need the sport, then I might consider whether Sky would have value and if the movies was something to keep me with them... but as I like my sport and this is really the best platform in my opinion I am fine with Sky.

I think Sky come the Optus review will look at how they can change the distribution and therefore price method but as many have pointed out, they are paying the premium for sports and movies and I don't think this will dramatically change the overall cost of the complete package, they just need to change the structure of how they price.

One thing to note is that if they go internet delivery, ffw/rw as is currently available will go. The new Vodafone box has demonstrated that internet based delivery does not work well trying to fast forward as latency and seek times get it confused.. I have a tv server on my synology and via network streaming, I can get to x8 ffw before it falls over and that's on a wired 1gbe lan.

Rikkitic

Awrrr
18663 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#1926931 30-Dec-2017 12:15

Benoire:

A good, thoughtful analysis, but I don't think it is quite complete. If you have Netflix, you also have access to a whole world of other legal(!) streaming content, much of it free. Realistically, Sky should be compared to this, not just Netflix. And if you compare by price, you can have Netflix, Hulu, HBO, Amazon Prime, and god knows what else for what you pay to Sky.

Sky does win on sports. They have to be given that.

As far as FF and RW go, there are actually ways to get around that. A simple one is just to use time shifted recording. Start recording what you want to view, go do something else for a while, then start watching. You can zap up and down the recorded stream all you like.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Benoire

2798 posts

Uber Geek

#1926936 30-Dec-2017 12:26

Rikkitic:

Benoire:

A good, thoughtful analysis, but I don't think it is quite complete. If you have Netflix, you also have access to a whole world of other legal(!) streaming content, much of it free. Realistically, Sky should be compared to this, not just Netflix. And if you compare by price, you can have Netflix, Hulu, HBO, Amazon Prime, and god knows what else for what you pay to Sky.

Sky does win on sports. They have to be given that.

As far as FF and RW go, there are actually ways to get around that. A simple one is just to use time shifted recording. Start recording what you want to view, go do something else for a while, then start watching. You can zap up and down the recorded stream all you like.

You're correct, but as I do not have access to those I haven't compared them. I accept that Sports are a costly exercise but as it is a passion of mine, I am prepared to pay... As the owners of F1 have indicated, they are not dropping the media companies and the contracts.. so F1 will have ondemand access but not in NZ due to the contracts signed by Sky, so this will continue until all get sports which will either be through the owners going online OR accepting a reduced figure from individual companies but potentially higher base.

Timeshifting TV is effectively what FFW/RW is, but via network (local or otherwise) latency and seeking of the stream becomes problematic compared to local. One way around this is that streaming boxes get large local storage in the form of HDDs for buffering and then the content is sent to the unit faster than you're watching and then you can skip/ffw/rw within the local stored stream rather than via an on demand stream. I've been asking the developers of the live channels app for TVH in android TV to do this as this would eliminate the issue.

old3eyes

9120 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

#1927055 30-Dec-2017 16:54

Here's something I saw today Stream Cutting It could get just as expensive as Sky..

Regards,

Old3eyes

tdgeek

29749 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1927079 30-Dec-2017 18:05

Sam91:

tdgeek:

Dingbatt: I wish they would introduce the Sky Q boxes they have in the UK. They are the next generation of subscriber box. The only trouble is, when/if they do, they will charge an arm and a leg (and possibly a kidney) for the privilege of using one. After all they are cheeky enough to charge extra for HD.

Optus I think charges for HD and others do as well.

Currently the Sky boxes are a nice earner. $15 or $20 a month forever. It should be say rental up to $300 then done, no more rental.

I'm not sure if this option is still available, but it used to be. We paid $400 - $500 in 2008 for our MySky box.

Thats naughty of them, but its revenue. It was $600

tdgeek

29749 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1927081 30-Dec-2017 18:16

Rikkitic:

tdgeek:

We also watch most Sky stuff recorded. I see ads everywhere, its not just Sky or FTA.

Newspaper, webpages, billboards, and many many and so ons. Why are all these tolerated by us? We should have no ads. Then we wont know who is having a sale, what is on special, what event is coming up, what new TV series is starting soon.

Sorry, but you really are starting to sound like a Sky shill. Some advertising (very little these days) is simply informative. It just tells you what is being offered, and maybe the terms for acquiring it. I have no objection to that.

Most, nearly all, is motivational. It screams, prods, blackmails, turns your children against you, does everything except hold a gun to your head to try to compel you to purchase something you don't really need or want. This advertising I find despicable and have no patience for. I do everything possible to block it. As an aside, I find the commercials on New Zealand Free To Air particularly offensive. They rarely contain any wit or humour, like the bugger ads did. Mainly, they seem to think the way to get attention is to treat viewers like morons, or to scream louder. They always get the mute button from me. I am old school and particularly resent being screamed at.

Sky can't do anything about FTA crap, but it is in a league of its own when it comes to boring, repetitive, intrusive promos. People actually pay to have this experience? Unbelievable. Anywhere else in the world, pay TV means no ads. None. Nada. Only in the Sky universe do they try to eat from both sides of the table. The only reason I can think of that you find this practice in any way normal or acceptable is you have been brainwashed from birth. It is not normal and it is not acceptable. It is Sky greedily exploiting their no competition monopoly. Except now there is competition. The monopoly is gone. Thank goodness.

No, Im not a shill! There was never a monopoly. Still isn't. There is competition but thats fake news. No one would buy Sky for movies. No one would buy NF for sport. They are two subsets that rarely overlap.

Ads. Block ALL or block none. Ads are ONLY for sales. Thus we have the funny bugger ads, and we have the PITB ads that we hate, but they also work. Im happy to block all ads I will just scour the internet for Briscoes sales. Easy. Same for AB's tickets, also easy. Its all or none. Yes, Sky is Pay TV, but we are a backwater country, and where I've been to many cities double or more the size. Its like comparing NYC to the West Coast of NZ. WCNZ is expensive, but its got its benefits. You cannot live in NYC and get the benefits of a small remote country, economically it doesn't work. Economies of scale.

Monopoly is gone? Ok, cool. You can get TV everywhere, even here in lil ol' NZ. FTA, Sky, NF, LB, and so on. Hulu is coming? Amazon too? That fine.

Sharesies

Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

loceff13

1065 posts

Uber Geek

#1927083 30-Dec-2017 18:22

PrimeVideo is already available in NZ, I can't see Hulu launching here as all of their content rights(fox disney nbc packages) are already owned by other major networks here

tdgeek

29749 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1927084 30-Dec-2017 18:23

Rikkitic:

Benoire:

A good, thoughtful analysis, but I don't think it is quite complete. If you have Netflix, you also have access to a whole world of other legal(!) streaming content, much of it free. Realistically, Sky should be compared to this, not just Netflix. And if you compare by price, you can have Netflix, Hulu, HBO, Amazon Prime, and god knows what else for what you pay to Sky.

Sky does win on sports. They have to be given that.

As far as FF and RW go, there are actually ways to get around that. A simple one is just to use time shifted recording. Start recording what you want to view, go do something else for a while, then start watching. You can zap up and down the recorded stream all you like.

If you get all the SVOD, how much is that? 6 times $15?

I dont get the recording with NF. Maybe I missed something. If its OD as in NF, it doesnt need to be recorded, its always there?

Sky OD s quite cool, its not live. You choose it, need to wait a few minutes as its recording to the HDD. No need to buffer, you are watching off HDD not internet.

tdgeek

29749 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1927086 30-Dec-2017 18:27

Benoire:

Rikkitic:

Benoire:

A good, thoughtful analysis, but I don't think it is quite complete. If you have Netflix, you also have access to a whole world of other legal(!) streaming content, much of it free. Realistically, Sky should be compared to this, not just Netflix. And if you compare by price, you can have Netflix, Hulu, HBO, Amazon Prime, and god knows what else for what you pay to Sky.

Sky does win on sports. They have to be given that.

As far as FF and RW go, there are actually ways to get around that. A simple one is just to use time shifted recording. Start recording what you want to view, go do something else for a while, then start watching. You can zap up and down the recorded stream all you like.

You're correct, but as I do not have access to those I haven't compared them. I accept that Sports are a costly exercise but as it is a passion of mine, I am prepared to pay... As the owners of F1 have indicated, they are not dropping the media companies and the contracts.. so F1 will have ondemand access but not in NZ due to the contracts signed by Sky, so this will continue until all get sports which will either be through the owners going online OR accepting a reduced figure from individual companies but potentially higher base.

Timeshifting TV is effectively what FFW/RW is, but via network (local or otherwise) latency and seeking of the stream becomes problematic compared to local. One way around this is that streaming boxes get large local storage in the form of HDDs for buffering and then the content is sent to the unit faster than you're watching and then you can skip/ffw/rw within the local stored stream rather than via an on demand stream. I've been asking the developers of the live channels app for TVH in android TV to do this as this would eliminate the issue.

What Sky needs to do is stop subsidising Sport. Say just $100. $47 plus $50 odd. It needs to be $20 plus $80. Makes no difference to you and me but Basic is a wide genre option to suit many. Use that "package" to give discounts elsewhere. It has to go there, but right now, not too much of a hurry

dafman

3928 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#1927137 30-Dec-2017 20:35

It's rubbish to say Sky are not trying to compete on movies. The Sky boxes at our holiday homes had HEAPS of movie options. Sadly, however, few of these were accessible as, apparently, $100+ each month ain't enough to actually watch movies - we kept getting dead links telling us there was no subscription to most movie channels.

Benoire

2798 posts

Uber Geek

#1927157 30-Dec-2017 21:32

dafman:

It's rubbish to say Sky are not trying to compete on movies. The Sky boxes at our holiday homes had HEAPS of movie options. Sadly, however, few of these were accessible as, apparently, $100+ each month ain't enough to actually watch movies - we kept getting dead links telling us there was no subscription to most movie channels.

Surprises me slightly, Box Office and Rialto are the only ones which are not included in the Sky Sub; Box Offices being the PPV channels and Rialto being a seperate package not owned by Sky but resold on.

I also agree that Sky is trying to do movies, otherwise why would it have 7 sub based movie channels and 4 PPV movie channels. I'm quite happy with Sky in general, as I find the movies are sufficient and Sports essential. I then roam around the doco channels.

I do think that Soho should be included in the normal sub, but I wonder how much GoT is costing Sky on release... Probably large amounts of money...

rugrat

3107 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#1927169 30-Dec-2017 22:10

tdgeek:
Sky OD s quite cool, its not live. You choose it, need to wait a few minutes as its recording to the HDD. No need to buffer, you are watching off HDD not internet.

If SD Video and mono sound is someone's thing, yeah quite cool.
Meanwhile with less then 5 seconds wait time watching UHD on Netflix, and amazing sound. Yeah I have fibre so that helps, but I heard a rumour that fibre is becoming available to more people every day.

Benoire

2798 posts

Uber Geek

#1927212 30-Dec-2017 22:32

rugrat:
tdgeek:

Sky OD s quite cool, its not live. You choose it, need to wait a few minutes as its recording to the HDD. No need to buffer, you are watching off HDD not internet.

If SD Video and mono sound is someone's thing, yeah quite cool.
Meanwhile with less then 5 seconds wait time watching UHD on Netflix, and amazing sound. Yeah I have fibre so that helps, but I heard a rumour that fibre is becoming available to more people every day.

That still doesn't solve the FFW/RW issue that on-demand will present to many people, although that might just be me, Sky's partial downloading actually deals with this and works well.

I do question how much the internet in NZ would deal with lots of people streaming HD internet based content? H.265 will allow a decrease in bandwidth without the loss of quality which should improve things but imagine all the peeps with Sky moving to online, could that be potentially 800,000 users streaming at the same time? Fibre has high burst speeds but isn't the individual guaranteed level of bandwidth per user much lower?

Jase2985

13462 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Lifetime subscriber

#1927216 30-Dec-2017 23:07

normally a single 2.4gbps back haul divided by 12-16 customers so 150mbps per customer on average so plenty to stream

chorus are trailing 10gbps fibre connections so i imagine that 2.4gbps will be increasing in the near future

1 | ... | 39 | 40 | 41 | 42 | 43 | 44 | 45 | 46 | 47 | 48 | 49 | ... | 57