Tivo CGA Claim October 2017

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750 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1744032 19-Mar-2017 19:59

BlinkyBill: King Canute demonstrated that there are powers greater than his, and he was the most powerful in the land. He set his throne on the sea shore and commanded the sea not to wet his feet.

I'm assuming the OP is demonstrating the futility of dogma and illogical thinking, in a most regal manner reminiscent of history. Verily, the wisdom of Solomon, in the modern age.

Or, he's nuts.

No, not nuts but recognize I often tilt at windmills.

With this I'm just interested in exploring options when something a consumer has purchased fails - for whatever reason that might be.

minimoke

750 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1744034 19-Mar-2017 20:08

blakamin:

mattwnz:

Well if you have moved on with a new device, then why are you even participating?

Because I was trying to make you see common sense and stop you wasting your time, and the time of people in the MBIE that could be actually doing something important.

Like I said, it's been fun, in a "pulling out your toenails" kind of way.

No waste of time - itrs my time and I can do with it what I will. No idea why you are worried about MBIE, they are govt workers and get paid wehter its important business or not. This is an issue between a consumer and a supplier. pure and simple.

We dont need common sense - we need an understanding of consumer rights under the CGA and Fair trading Act. So far it seems we have a general consensus that 5 years is a good life for a tivo which i think is a bit light for a "world calls product. "But for the purposes of this discussion I can live with it. I've given you an example of how my Tivo comes within that time frame. So that is that obstacle covered.

Next is clarity on the terms and conditions under which the tivo device was supplied. I've owned up and said as far as I recall it was under an agreement to stay with Telecom for 12 months but I dont recall the precise terms.. But I will try to track down something else or confirm that.

If consumers have no interest in their rights if a product fails, especially in the third party technology space then this will be a waste of time. No point looking at the thread in that case,

Jase2985

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#1744054 19-Mar-2017 20:40

you are going to end up wasting my tax payer dollars just for the sake of it? because you have time on your hands?

the product that has failed is not the unit its the service. until you grasp that i cant see you getting anywhere

NonprayingMantis

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#1744061 19-Mar-2017 20:58

Even if we say that you'll win in a court case, you won't be getting a full refund. A judge would deem that you've had enjoyment for 5 years. You might get $100 - if you are lucky (and Thats *if* you win)
Is it worth going through all the court case drama for a small chance of $100?

If this was 12 months after you got your TiVo I'd have some sympathy. But it's 5 years. That's more than ample time - especially since you didn't *actualky* pay for it (and you'd be hard pushed to find anyone who actually paid $500 for their TiVo)

Stu

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#1744064 19-Mar-2017 21:01

$500? We paid $920 for our first unit, as did a few others on Geekzone.

People often mistake me for an adult because of my age.

Keep calm, and carry on posting.

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NonprayingMantis

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#1744121 19-Mar-2017 21:43

Stu: $500? We paid $920 for our first unit, as did a few others on Geekzone.

That was when they first came out in 2009.
I'm talking about 2012.

minimoke

750 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1744130 19-Mar-2017 22:06

Jase2985:

you are going to end up wasting my tax payer dollars just for the sake of it? because you have time on your hands?

the product that has failed is not the unit its the service. until you grasp that i cant see you getting anywhere

This is a matter between a consumer and a supplier - no tax payer dollars involved.

Heres a simple test. Will the unit perform, on 1 November as it did on 31 October. Answer is No. Therefore unit is defective, no matter the reason.

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minimoke

750 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1744131 19-Mar-2017 22:08

NonprayingMantis: Even if we say that you'll win in a court case, you won't be getting a full refund. A judge would deem that you've had enjoyment for 5 years. You might get $100 - if you are lucky (and Thats *if* you win)
Is it worth going through all the court case drama for a small chance of $100?

If this was 12 months after you got your TiVo I'd have some sympathy. But it's 5 years. That's more than ample time - especially since you didn't *actualky* pay for it (and you'd be hard pushed to find anyone who actually paid $500 for their TiVo)

Depreciation is not an option under the remedies contained under the CGA. Who paid what is not the issue. Telcom provided a unit. They are the supplier CGA responsibility lies with them.

scuwp

3886 posts

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#1744132 19-Mar-2017 22:14

minimoke:

Jase2985:

you are going to end up wasting my tax payer dollars just for the sake of it? because you have time on your hands?

the product that has failed is not the unit its the service. until you grasp that i cant see you getting anywhere

This is a matter between a consumer and a supplier - no tax payer dollars involved.

Heres a simple test. Will the unit perform, on 1 November as it did on 31 October. Answer is No. Therefore unit is defective, no matter the reason.

Yes the taxpayer pays for the folk at MBiE and the courts. Absolutely a claims hearing will be using our tax dollars. Why it seems that 'government employees' are somehow second class workers who deserve to have their time wasted is rather condescending and unfortunate, but I digress.

Yes the unit will be cease to work as it was originally intended, that's an indisputable fact. The question is whether the 5+ years of use constitutes a reasonable lifespan for the product/service. All but a select few on this thread reckon it is.

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

Yabanize

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#1744133 19-Mar-2017 22:17

We own a TiVo however the remote stopped working not long after we got it (I used a phone app to control it for a while) but in the end we just stopped using it.

I'm mostly commenting on this to play devils advocate and am not too concerned, they were a darn cool box though.

How about the fact comparable boxes from competitors (myFreeview etc) Panasonic will continue to work for many years to come? Where as these will just drop off

minimoke

750 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1744134 19-Mar-2017 22:19

scuwp:
minimoke:

Jase2985:

you are going to end up wasting my tax payer dollars just for the sake of it? because you have time on your hands?

the product that has failed is not the unit its the service. until you grasp that i cant see you getting anywhere

This is a matter between a consumer and a supplier - no tax payer dollars involved.

Heres a simple test. Will the unit perform, on 1 November as it did on 31 October. Answer is No. Therefore unit is defective, no matter the reason.

Yes the taxpayer pays for the folk at MBiE and the courts. Absolutely a claims hearing will be using our tax dollars. Why it seems that 'government employees' are somehow second class workers who deserve to have their time wasted is rather condescending and unfortunate, but I digress.

Yes the unit will be cease to work as it was originally intended, that's an indisputable fact. The question is whether the 5+ years of use constitutes a reasonable lifespan for the product/service. All but a select few on this thread reckon it is.

So you agree unit will not perform as intended. And my unit is less than 5 years. Why would you object to me seeking a remedy

scuwp

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#1744140 19-Mar-2017 22:31

minimoke:
scuwp:
minimoke:

Jase2985:

you are going to end up wasting my tax payer dollars just for the sake of it? because you have time on your hands?

the product that has failed is not the unit its the service. until you grasp that i cant see you getting anywhere

This is a matter between a consumer and a supplier - no tax payer dollars involved.

Heres a simple test. Will the unit perform, on 1 November as it did on 31 October. Answer is No. Therefore unit is defective, no matter the reason.

Yes the taxpayer pays for the folk at MBiE and the courts. Absolutely a claims hearing will be using our tax dollars. Why it seems that 'government employees' are somehow second class workers who deserve to have their time wasted is rather condescending and unfortunate, but I digress.

Yes the unit will be cease to work as it was originally intended, that's an indisputable fact. The question is whether the 5+ years of use constitutes a reasonable lifespan for the product/service. All but a select few on this thread reckon it is.

So you agree unit will not perform as intended. And my unit is less than 5 years. Why would you object to me seeking a remedy

I don't object. Fill your boots. I just don't believe you have a valid argument, at least not one that is worth a battle for the small amount of recompense, if any, you may get. To the best of my understanding they were last sold over 5 years ago now (I am guessing that's why they have waited this long to pull the pin) I genuinely wish you all the best in your endevours and look forward to updates on how you get on.

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

tdgeek

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#1744146 19-Mar-2017 22:37

mattwnz: Unfortunately this is going round in round in circles, with people asking the same things again and again, that have already been covered in the other tivo thread multiple times. At the end of the day people have to make up their own mind what they want to do. If people feel they have got a good amount of life out off their tivo and have used it a lot, and they are ready to buy a replacemeant now to get a similar type of service, that is up to them.

Your right, it is going round in circles, as most threads do

Why?

One side wants what they want. The other side says it doesn't work that way.

Both sides put their comments as facts, only one is correct

IMHO, I have a Tivo, Id like it to continue, but like so many other things in life, nothing is forever. There are sound arguments for both sides. Take me, Im biased, I have a Tivo, but I cant see the fight to the CGA getting any traction. I see those that want to take it to the CGA as generally being a bit miffed at the 31 Oct shutdown. More that than its actually CGA material. Off course thats not what everyone thinks, but the tone is quite common.

I say got for it. There is a lot of Tivo love here, but its not about that, its about the law, the T+C's and if HybridTV have sought legal advice as to the outcomes if and when they cease the licence. You can guarantee they have. Note that 1 Nov is the anniversary date, or at least Nov is, that may mean something.

tdgeek

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#1744148 19-Mar-2017 22:49

minimoke:

Peppery:

You can't buy a device, use it for x years and then claim you didn't know about the terms & conditions.

Yes I can - if telecom / spark want to rely on teh T's and C's it wil be for them to show the date I agreed to them - as mentioned I dont recall agreeing to them at lal llet alone before I purchased.

Emphasis mine. The Telecom terms state that you will also need to agree to Hybrid's T&Cs and they they are not responsible for the service. You would have agreed to the Hybrid terms during device set up as is standard for most software these days. Although I am guessing that these were skipped through.

I'm not sure yet how allowable secondary terms are if not agreed as part of the original contract. I'm not even sure what Hybrids terms were - there wasnt a link to them in the Telecoms terms. Perhasp they were part of the Tivo setup. At which point the device was already in my possession, contract agreed to.

Are you saying that no one from Spark got out a hard copy of T+C's and gave then to you to sign? No they would not have. If they did would you have read them all? They, like all others are online. If you did due diligence you could have read them. Off corse, few do, but they are there, not hidden.

tdgeek

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#1744149 19-Mar-2017 22:58

minimoke:

blakamin:

mattwnz:

Well if you have moved on with a new device, then why are you even participating?

Because I was trying to make you see common sense and stop you wasting your time, and the time of people in the MBIE that could be actually doing something important.

Like I said, it's been fun, in a "pulling out your toenails" kind of way.

No waste of time - itrs my time and I can do with it what I will. No idea why you are worried about MBIE, they are govt workers and get paid wehter its important business or not. This is an issue between a consumer and a supplier. pure and simple.

We dont need common sense - we need an understanding of consumer rights under the CGA and Fair trading Act. So far it seems we have a general consensus that 5 years is a good life for a tivo which i think is a bit light for a "world calls product. "But for the purposes of this discussion I can live with it. I've given you an example of how my Tivo comes within that time frame. So that is that obstacle covered.

Next is clarity on the terms and conditions under which the tivo device was supplied. I've owned up and said as far as I recall it was under an agreement to stay with Telecom for 12 months but I dont recall the precise terms.. But I will try to track down something else or confirm that.

If consumers have no interest in their rights if a product fails, especially in the third party technology space then this will be a waste of time. No point looking at the thread in that case,

They have already been posted.

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