Tivo CGA Claim October 2017

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#1745130 21-Mar-2017 11:07

minimoke:
So another question. What lifespan should a consumer expect out of a bog standard freeview box?

standard freeview box is not a pvr, so who cares - if the question is a standard pvr, then all pvr have a HDD in them that has life time of no more then 5 year, so PVR would be about 3 - 5 year as standard good use out them.

minimoke

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#1745131 21-Mar-2017 11:11

And another fact. In its earliest anouncement telecom said they had entered into a "partnership" with hybrid.

Now my opinion generally in partnership one partner remains liable for the actions of the other partner. This partnership gives the consumer comfort that their purchase is backed by a well established nz company. We dont have to worry about inherent risk with a newbie untested company.that risk is carried by the partners. And given its a partnership i find it hard to believe telecom did not know about the licensing issues.

sbiddle

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#1745132 21-Mar-2017 11:15

minimoke: Here is another "fact". If i run a guided setup or clear delete the device will loose all functionality. Why is it a fact - because tivo tells me so.

So another question. What lifespan should a consumer expect out of a bog standard freeview box?

There is no timeframe for lifespan of a device so your question can't be answered.

Based on accepted CGA guidelines for consumer electronics devices a device should last for (and be supported for) 5 years.

sbiddle

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#1745133 21-Mar-2017 11:16

minimoke: And another fact. In its earliest anouncement telecom said they had entered into a "partnership" with hybrid.

Now my opinion generally in partnership one partner remains liable for the actions of the other partner. This partnership gives the consumer comfort that their purchase is backed by a well established nz company. We dont have to worry about inherent risk with a newbie untested company.that risk is carried by the partners. And given its a partnership i find it hard to believe telecom did not know about the licensing issues.

So once again TVNZ owned part of Hybrid. Telecom didn't. Why not bring TVNZ into this? They're far more liable for the failure of Hybrid than Telecom who had no financial interest at all.

minimoke

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#1745134 21-Mar-2017 11:19

And another fact for the day this time from tvnz. "The tivo media device connects to your tv and offers access to digital high definition programming".

But there is an added and separate extra. "With tivo youre also able to record your favourite shows........"

So why would i not expect at the very least to have a residual freeview box?

bagheera

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#1745135 21-Mar-2017 11:24

minimoke: And another fact for the day this time from tvnz. "The tivo media device connects to your tv and offers access to digital high definition programming".

But there is an added and separate extra. "With tivo youre also able to record your favourite shows........"

So why would i not expect at the very least to have a residual freeview box?

as far as i can tell - you still can do that after 31 oct - just have manually do it

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old3eyes

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#1745136 21-Mar-2017 11:24

minimoke: Here's a fact. We have been told to take our tivo to an e-recycler. If that doesnt make it a dead device what does?

And a question. After 1 november, and a reboot will i be able to watch freeview channels?

Unplug your network and test it..

Regards,

Old3eyes

minimoke

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#1745137 21-Mar-2017 11:25

Because sbiddle (sorry quotes dont seem to work on my phone) this thread is about the CGA. Tvnz were not the supplier so noone can bring a cga claim against them.

Telecom is essentially the last man standing. Though i suspect the same arguments could br5 ussd against the warehouse group or more specifically noel leeming since bond and bond arent around anymore.

sbiddle

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#1745138 21-Mar-2017 11:27

minimoke: And another fact for the day this time from tvnz. "The tivo media device connects to your tv and offers access to digital high definition programming".

But there is an added and separate extra. "With tivo youre also able to record your favourite shows........"

So why would i not expect at the very least to have a residual freeview box?

Did it mention Freeview anywhere? Nope it didn't.

The Tivo was *not* a Freeview certified device.

mattwnz

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#1745141 21-Mar-2017 11:36

sbiddle:
Wiggum:

sbiddle:

minimoke:

And a question. After 1 november, and a reboot will i be able to watch freeview channels?

Yes it will. The Tivo announcement made that very clear.

Even if I do a reset? As I understand it. This will effectively turn my beloved tivo into a brick.

No. Their announcement made it clear it will die after a reset. What reasons would there be for doing one?

It appears if you just want to delete all your recordings to clear the space on it, rather than delete recordings one by one, that potentially could also brick it. At least that is the way I interpreted out from their website. I do wonder if there are any other conditions where it could brick itself in the future. I did email tivo a few questions on their contect firm but never heard back but wouldn't be surprised if the form was broken as the confirmation page looked broken with no text on it.

minimoke

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#1745142 21-Mar-2017 11:38

I reckon (sorry in advance for that word) if i disconnect from network the freeview will still work.

But tivo says after 1 nov and after a guided set up all functionailty will be lost. If it was going to retain simple freeview access id have thought tivo would have said so. As a consumer i shouldn't be left guessing at these things.

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andrew027

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#1745143 21-Mar-2017 11:38

My $0.02 on this is that you have no claim against Spark.

The T&C as posted on page 7 of this thread make it completely clear that Hybrid Television Services was responsible for provision of the TiVo service, not Telecom, and it is the TiVo service operated by Hybrid that is ceasing. There is nothing physically wrong with the box [see #7].
You have assigned a value of $300 to a second TiVo box that was given to you free. The Disputes Tribunal will not uphold this. If the 12 month term you signed up for to get the second box finishes after October 2017 you may be able to get a refund on the broadband costs if the TiVo was a deciding factor in signing up, but you won't get any money back for something you didn't pay for and you have no recourse if you have already used the full 12 months service.
I doubt you will be entitled to claim under s7(1)(e) as there is nothing wrong with the durability of the box. You'd be more likely to get something under s7(1)(a) or s8 as it will no longer be fit for the purpose for which it was supplied.
You will not be entitled to anything under s18 as you have suffered no material loss. Your "loss of enjoyment" doesn't count.
You state several times that you think Telecom entered into an agreement with Hybrid knowing it would cease operating in 2017. I don't agree, but either way you'll need to provide some evidence if you want to use this as part of your argument under s7(1)(i), unless you plan to use the Trump method of just throwing out random unverified defamatory statements and hoping they stick.
While going through sections of the Act, how about s20(2) where you must reject the goods within a reasonable period from the time of supply? Spark (if you're going after them) might argue that your happy use of the boxes for five years means you accepted there was no defect.
People have used a number of analogies, which can be misleading as two situations will seldom be exactly alike. The CDMA phone/network example is pretty good in that, like the TiVo box, the phone would still work if a service was available (e.g. if you used it roaming in another country where CDMA was still operating). The major difference in the analogies is it was Telecom's decision to close down the CDMA network - it was not their decision to shut down the TiVo service. The way Telecom handled the CDMA network closure, giving people as much notice as possible and offering refunds on pre-paid credit, etc. indicates they acted pretty honourably in that case and yet your assumption is that they acted dishonourably in your TiVo case.

sbiddle

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#1745145 21-Mar-2017 11:42

minimoke: I reckon (sorry in advance for that word) if i disconnect from network the freeview will still work.

But tivo says after 1 nov and after a guided set up all functionailty will be lost. If it was going to retain simple freeview access id have thought tivo would have said so. As a consumer i shouldn't be left guessing at these things.

I actually begin to wonder if you've ever read the Tivo post. It very clearly says that watching TV *WILL* continue to work.

if you are using your TiVo device with an old analogue TV to convert and receive digital channels, this will still work after 31 October

Anyway I'm out of this thread. It's going nowhere.

minimoke

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#1745146 21-Mar-2017 11:42

Sbiddle. In the telecom press release it said tivo "as well as access to all freeview HD channels"

old3eyes

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#1745156 21-Mar-2017 11:50

minimoke: Sbiddle. In the telecom press release it said tivo "as well as access to all freeview HD channels"

Which is 3 channels.

Regards,

Old3eyes

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