TiVo Service ending on 31 October 2017

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221 posts

Master Geek
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#1732929 8-Mar-2017 11:08

mikeypnz:

What can we do after 31 October

First idea

Setup a new back end server for the EPG etc.

Years ago the people were connecting American Series1 TiVo (NTSC Units, using VCRs as a tuner) and got together to make a server system to connect them to. They got the EPG from the individual websites to create the guide. The series 1 TiVo need a specially loaded hard disk from a PC running LINUX to get it working.

I'm sure that it can be done with Tivo 320s. This would require someone to setup a server and create a new TiVo 3 hard disk image. Once going I would be consider looking after one channel EPG and load it into the server.

Then use Facebook group to manage the news releases and get the existing Tivo users onboard. Then sell replacement Hard disks (as is the case now) on trademe, so people can install them. We should be able to get many more years of use out of the TiVos.

I was never involved with the series1 units, but saw it working. Sometimes a channel would stop when when there was a problem but was fixed quickly.

Second Idea

Create a Non Profit organisation (Crowd Funded) to buy the Hybrid Televisions equipment and continue to run it. Possibly there is some way money can be made from the user database and selling streaming video access into TiVos. Possibly a $25 a year subscription to pay for the expenses. The organisation would hold the money, and could change fees up and down if required.

Estimates say there may be 100 000 units running still in NZ.

Mike - 021446800

EPG is already available for free. The problems are:

1. Massaging it into whatever format tivo accepts. Once set up that is a zero effort, automated script.

2. Getting Tivo to load it from somewhere other than a Tivo server. This MAY be as simple as a DNS redirect in your router.

Until someone actually does some basic hacking and sees what the seeries 3 tivo ACTUALLY downloads, and where from, it is all pie in the sky.

I have seen people claim it would take an expensive hosted server to do this. But no one has said how many people a day might be accessing it, and what the daily data volume per customer is. I can say that the daily data amount for the entire freeview channel mix via zipped xmltv is about 180k, or unzipped about 1.6M. (yes it is text data with a lot of repetition so it zips well).

That may well be possible from someone's home server on a good DSL or fibre line.

Dynamic

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#1732944 8-Mar-2017 11:35

I would host it in a heartbeat.

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dickytim

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#1732973 8-Mar-2017 12:14

jaidevp:

So back in the day I was involved in the tivo series 1 emulator setup etc for NZtivo users, we did work with the oztivo community on several issues, although our guide collection systems (EPG) were slightly different, and still functioning to this day.

If people are serious about working on the series 3 to function with a/the emulator, I'd team up with the Aussie folk over on Whirlpool thread, as the series 3 has a few unknowns in it's guide (epg) slice ingestion, keep alive (boat anchor) calls etc, prerequisite of course is prom socketing or reprogramming...

If someone sold a DIY kit for this for between $2-300 that was close to plug and play I'd be in, hell I'd even be happy to contribute to maintenance of the infrastructure, $5 a month or $60 a year is not unreasonable.

The issue is that at some point the device will die, and the people who are running this all may loose interest.

Groucho

542 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 217

#1733052 8-Mar-2017 14:15

nickrout:

EPG is already available for free. The problems are:

1. Massaging it into whatever format tivo accepts. Once set up that is a zero effort, automated script.

2. Getting Tivo to load it from somewhere other than a Tivo server. This MAY be as simple as a DNS redirect in your router.

Until someone actually does some basic hacking and sees what the seeries 3 tivo ACTUALLY downloads, and where from, it is all pie in the sky.

I have seen people claim it would take an expensive hosted server to do this. But no one has said how many people a day might be accessing it, and what the daily data volume per customer is. I can say that the daily data amount for the entire freeview channel mix via zipped xmltv is about 180k, or unzipped about 1.6M. (yes it is text data with a lot of repetition so it zips well).

That may well be possible from someone's home server on a good DSL or fibre line.

Other than the EPG, also have to figure out how to manage changes in the channel lineup as channels are added or removed over time plus security updates for the OS.

old3eyes

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#1733080 8-Mar-2017 14:45

Groucho:

nickrout:

EPG is already available for free. The problems are:

1. Massaging it into whatever format tivo accepts. Once set up that is a zero effort, automated script.

2. Getting Tivo to load it from somewhere other than a Tivo server. This MAY be as simple as a DNS redirect in your router.

Until someone actually does some basic hacking and sees what the seeries 3 tivo ACTUALLY downloads, and where from, it is all pie in the sky.

I have seen people claim it would take an expensive hosted server to do this. But no one has said how many people a day might be accessing it, and what the daily data volume per customer is. I can say that the daily data amount for the entire freeview channel mix via zipped xmltv is about 180k, or unzipped about 1.6M. (yes it is text data with a lot of repetition so it zips well).

That may well be possible from someone's home server on a good DSL or fibre line.

Other than the EPG, also have to figure out how to manage changes in the channel lineup as channels are added or removed over time plus security updates for the OS.

Also what happens when the TiVo is defaulted as it phones home before it will let you retune it..

Regards,

Old3eyes

mattwnz

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#1733184 8-Mar-2017 17:35

dickytim:

jaidevp:

So back in the day I was involved in the tivo series 1 emulator setup etc for NZtivo users, we did work with the oztivo community on several issues, although our guide collection systems (EPG) were slightly different, and still functioning to this day.

If people are serious about working on the series 3 to function with a/the emulator, I'd team up with the Aussie folk over on Whirlpool thread, as the series 3 has a few unknowns in it's guide (epg) slice ingestion, keep alive (boat anchor) calls etc, prerequisite of course is prom socketing or reprogramming...

If someone sold a DIY kit for this for between $2-300 that was close to plug and play I'd be in, hell I'd even be happy to contribute to maintenance of the infrastructure, $5 a month or $60 a year is not unreasonable.

The issue is that at some point the device will die, and the people who are running this all may loose interest.

I really wonder how long the hardware will last for, considering it is on 247. I have some vintage PCs that are from the 80's and work perfectly, and were designed to be repaired as the components are big and can be unsoldered and soldered.Even ancient hardrives still work. As do tape machines and old 5 1/4 inch disks. But they weren't on 247. With the tivo there is wear in the harddrives, fans and capacitors tend to leak over time depending on the quality. Although I guess most of those things can be repaired, but many people wouldn't bother.

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tangerz

662 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 199

#1733198 8-Mar-2017 18:13

DMCM:

I think it was mentioned in a post on this thread somewhere. How do you change the image it is running?

The 'image' is just the units OS/firmware. To change, you just download the image you want, load it onto a USB flash drive, plug the USB drive into the unit (with power off), power on the unit and follow the prompts on the display. Very easy!

tussockcreek

40 posts

Geek
+1 received by user: 13

#1733218 8-Mar-2017 18:57

I love TiVo's. Me and my family have 5 (i even have a spare)! We should find out how many there are working,
and even all pay someone to hack them. We got 6 Months.
There would be a lot of satisfaction in keeping them going. And with them being cheap on trademe... awesome!

Else the Vu+ (with integrated twin terrestrial-T2) and Beyonwiz is our next alternative...
I'm sure the Vu+ will end up on trademe with T2 by Oct for far less than $1k! Prob around $600-$700.

Anyway, here's an Email regarding the Aussie Beyonwiz units:

Hi, I have a technical question.
I would like to know if these units you sell have "adjustable channel spacing" that would allow these to be used in New Zealand?
According to [earlier thread], Channel Band spacing is 8Mhz in NZ and 7Mhz in Aussie.
On the demise of the TiVo end of this year, many of us are looking for a great alternative.
There is nothing as simple as a TiVo for UHF (terrestrial HD). Yours looks similar.

Hi, Yes they should work but the problem will be the EPG data I think as I believe that it is encrypted by Freeview?
Our unit is fully open source so there are ways around it but would take a good community to get behind it..
Happy to send over a T2 sample with no HDD (you can add your own or use external) for $xxx and you can return it for refund
if you can't get it working, our engineers and developer community can work with you to customise some things for the local environment etc..
I have a few other guys over there who are keen, let me know.. All the Best, Jai, Sales Desk www.beyonwiz.com.au

mattwnz

20520 posts

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#1733229 8-Mar-2017 19:26

This is probably a question that only Hybrid can answer, as I presume their system logs when each tivo connects up to the server to download the EPG and other data such as messages. So I presume they should know how many active tivos there are, and I am guessing it isn't an insignificant number

blakamin

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#1733234 8-Mar-2017 19:36

Jaxson:

Based on the ambiguous statement on the TiVo box details:

TiVO Account Status: 5: Product Lifetime Service

They'll easily argue that as long as the service was offered, you could always use it for free.

It's now no longer offered.

'They' being an interesting discussion anyway, as everyone involved has skipped town. You're only avenue to complain about is the retailer, but they've haven't been sold in most cases in 5+ years, so I suspect they've waited until they clear the 'reasonable time' clause of the CGA.

According to Hybrid on Whirlpool that "TiVO Account Status: 5: Product Lifetime Service" was a line from the US firmware as Oz and NZ never had the subscription model they do in the US, and they couldn't change it.

They haven't sold a unit in over 4 years in Oz and their licence with tivo ran out.

Obviously without anything to sell, no big company backing them, and no spare parts, they have no money to renew the licence.

Good luck hacking the thing too... Ever since TiVo were bought out last year, they slam anyone using their IP (they have quite a few patents). If any hack becomes public.... well, you can guess what the new owners will do.

BTW, TiVo in Oz mention in the small print that the epg is available until it's not. NOT a "lifetime", like in the US. That has had many people confused.

mattwnz

20520 posts

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#1733252 8-Mar-2017 19:54

blakamin:

Jaxson:

Based on the ambiguous statement on the TiVo box details:

TiVO Account Status: 5: Product Lifetime Service

They'll easily argue that as long as the service was offered, you could always use it for free.

It's now no longer offered.

'They' being an interesting discussion anyway, as everyone involved has skipped town. You're only avenue to complain about is the retailer, but they've haven't been sold in most cases in 5+ years, so I suspect they've waited until they clear the 'reasonable time' clause of the CGA.

According to Hybrid on Whirlpool that "TiVO Account Status: 5: Product Lifetime Service" was a line from the US firmware as Oz and NZ never had the subscription model they do in the US, and they couldn't change it.

BTW, TiVo in Oz mention in the small print that the epg is available until it's not. NOT a "lifetime", like in the US. That has had many people confused.

As I posted previously, that seems to contradict with Tivo Ozs own Youtube Channels video, which says the EPG last for the 'life of the box' itself. The guy in the video literally says this. This video looks like an advertorial for the tivo in Oz/NZ, when they were first marketing it to people, as these are the same types of videos that I have still got on my tivo when it was first purchased mine.

The video doesn't seem to work on here but the link is at https://youtu.be/zj5UmTj-C9I

The point he said that the EPG is free, lasts for the life of the box, is at https://youtu.be/zj5UmTj-C9I?t=17s

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nickrout

221 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 38

#1733289 8-Mar-2017 20:57

No the epg is NOT encrypted by Freeview, what a load of crap.

Freeview has 7 or 8 days of EPG available via the industry standard EIT system.

tussockcreek

40 posts

Geek
+1 received by user: 13

#1733323 8-Mar-2017 21:30

Hey give the guy a break, he said "i believe it's encrypted" with a question mark, and he's not a kiwi!

We are not all Know-All's.

Maxcat

273 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 74

#1733481 9-Mar-2017 08:16

rphenix:

This is becoming more and more common - it almost needs legislative correction devices are being made bricks because someone decides they aren't going to support them anymore there should be a responsibility to either open up the device to firmware mods or at least a final update that allows the device to function relatively well.

Great post and agreed - yes it is.

Given the number of people affected by the TIVO end-of-service notice with many suggesting tens of thousands of TIVO still in service, it is a story that needs further coverage because it's TIVO today - something else tomorrow.

It serves as a warning for the ages..

There is nothing wrong with TIVO. Some will require new drives, but fundamentally this is landfill because of a service contract.

What happens when this affects home security systems or your car's operations or professional service software and firmware which has you backed into a a corner and it's upgrade or lose the service (I am living this one right now).

So if nothing else, someone here needs to be the face of TIVO for a Fair Go story.

RPhenix you are quite right - there is far more of this to come. TIVO is just one example of perfectly functioning hardware kneecapped by other service providers, creating needless landfill.

So who is up for Fair Go as a public service warning of other similar stories and failures to come..?

tdgeek

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#1733488 9-Mar-2017 08:34

Maxcat:

rphenix:

This is becoming more and more common - it almost needs legislative correction devices are being made bricks because someone decides they aren't going to support them anymore there should be a responsibility to either open up the device to firmware mods or at least a final update that allows the device to function relatively well.

Great post and agreed - yes it is.

Given the number of people affected by the TIVO end-of-service notice with many suggesting tens of thousands of TIVO still in service, it is a story that needs further coverage because it's TIVO today - something else tomorrow.

It serves as a warning for the ages..

There is nothing wrong with TIVO. Some will require new drives, but fundamentally this is landfill because of a service contract.

What happens when this affects home security systems or your car's operations or professional service software and firmware which has you backed into a a corner and it's upgrade or lose the service (I am living this one right now).

So if nothing else, someone here needs to be the face of TIVO for a Fair Go story.

RPhenix you are quite right - there is far more of this to come. TIVO is just one example of perfectly functioning hardware kneecapped by other service providers, creating needless landfill.

So who is up for Fair Go as a public service warning of other similar stories and failures to come..?

The service provider is HybridTV, they aren't continuing the service, and that happens all the time. Cadburys for example. Nothing lasts forever. They gave 6 months notice, not a lot more can be done that that. What about whe we went digital? Many TV's were valueless, unless you buy an STB or a new TV. Same thing really

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