Time to give electricity the flick?

Forums › Home Workshop DIY › Time to give electricity the flick?

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187 posts

Master Geek
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#2189066 28-Feb-2019 20:19

So flick have updated their Christchurch/Orion network charges - It's interesting the way that they have done it which is to turn the Freestyle network charges into more of a Fixie charge - smoothing out the Orion Peak charges across the entire year.

Although this might work for some its a bit of a shame as Orion have these higher charges at this time to discourage use at peak load times (which is the same as they do for their peak load which is repackaged by Flick at $0.03 across the year) for people with battery's this is a big step back as its a lot harder to load shift for an entire day for a smaller gain, than it is to load shift for only a few hours at night and morning to get a a good bang for your buck and cheaper rates the rest of the time.

Looks like Flick is really trying to move away from the network straight passthrough to more of a fixie model, (maybe a bit harsh comment, but certainty true for Christchurch)

pchs

187 posts

Master Geek
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#2203386 22-Mar-2019 14:16

Anyone with some inside knowledge know why the spot prices are quite high?

We seem to be burning a lot of coal and diesel at the moment, are there still restrictions on Natural Gas or is this more the lakes are low? it must be hurting some of the hedging company's which is bound to start to push up costs for some of the non generating retailers when they next buy hedges.

voy1d

178 posts

Master Geek
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#2203595 22-Mar-2019 19:42

This article should give some insight.

Where to from here for NZ electricity? - Stuart Innes

Aredwood

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Uber Geek
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#2203708 23-Mar-2019 01:47

pchs:
Anyone with some inside knowledge know why the spot prices are quite high?

We seem to be burning a lot of coal and diesel at the moment, are there still restrictions on Natural Gas or is this more the lakes are low? it must be hurting some of the hedging company's which is bound to start to push up costs for some of the non generating retailers when they next buy hedges.

In short, low lake levels. They are getting very close to breaching the 1% risk line on the Transpower hydro risk curves. You have continuing hot and dry weather adding to aircon and irrigation demand. And an ever shrinking window where rain is needed to fill the lakes before winter. If that rain is too late, it will fall as snow instead. And be unavailable for winter power generation.

The gentailers will also be raising their prices. As if they dont, shareholders and Management will start asking. “Why are we selling power to residential customers, at low margins compared to selling it into the wholesale market? Especially as the overheads to sell it retail are also alot higher than selling it wholesale”.

Aredwood

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Uber Geek
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#2203710 23-Mar-2019 02:17

voy1d:
This article should give some insight.

Where to from here for NZ electricity? - Stuart Innes

To add to this article:

Announcement of min heating standards for rental properties, which in most cases can only be met by installing heatpumps. Plus new heatpump installs that were going to happen regardless. Even if only 25% of heatpumps will get used for summer aircon, that is still lots of extra demand. While some of those heatpumps will replace gas heaters and woodburners. So there is still likely to be an overall increase in winter power demand also. Especially as tenants would be encouraged to actually keep their houses warm over winter, due to a better cost / benefit ratio for them to switch on the heatpump instead of an electric resistance heater.

More EVs creating completely new demand.

The oil drilling ban pushing up gas prices. Which in turn increases the operating costs of the gas fired power stations. And eventually, they will all have to close down when NZ runs out of gas. Sure, some might be able to be converted to coal. But how likely is it that the Green party would approve that? That is approx 1300MW of capacity that will need to be built. And that is not including the Huntly coal generators or the various small gas cogeneration units.

The money to build enough renewable generation has to come from somewhere. Both to replace fossil fuel generation and to cater to increasing demand.

tdgeek

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#2261873 21-Jun-2019 12:01

For those with Electric Kiwi, can I ask for help?

I can't reconcile the power usage per day with the graph

Two examples

Summer free hour 9am to 10pm The graph starts at 0.9kWh at 9pm. Midway is 0.7kWh at 10pm it is 1.5kwH At worse case it is 0.9kWh for the first half hour and 1.5 for the second which is .45 + .75 = 1.15kWh? But it says 2.2

The orher day the free hour start, middle, end was 1.3, 3.3, 3.8 But it was 7.1 they say. That hour started at 1.3 was at 3.3 30 minutes later and ended at 3.8. How can that one hour be 7.1kWh? Lets say for argument is started at 1.3, went immediately to 3.8, it can only be 3.8 for that hour?

zerkms

124 posts

Master Geek
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#2261875 21-Jun-2019 12:12

tdgeek:

The orher day the free hour start, middle, end was 1.3, 3.3, 3.8 But it was 7.1 they say. That hour started at 1.3 was at 3.3 30 minutes later and ended at 3.8. How can that one hour be 7.1kWh? Lets say for argument is started at 1.3, went immediately to 3.8, it can only be 3.8 for that hour?

Isn't it "power consumed within interval that ends at".

So 3.3kwh at xx:30 means: it was 3.3kwh consumed from xx:00 til xx:30

Hence: 3.3kwh+3.8kwh = 7.1kwh consumed from xx:00 til xx+1:00

Additional notes:

kwh (wh) is the AMOUNT of power consumed

kw (w) is the current instant value of load

tdgeek

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#2261955 21-Jun-2019 13:53

zerkms:

tdgeek:

The orher day the free hour start, middle, end was 1.3, 3.3, 3.8 But it was 7.1 they say. That hour started at 1.3 was at 3.3 30 minutes later and ended at 3.8. How can that one hour be 7.1kWh? Lets say for argument is started at 1.3, went immediately to 3.8, it can only be 3.8 for that hour?

Isn't it "power consumed within interval that ends at".

So 3.3kwh at xx:30 means: it was 3.3kwh consumed from xx:00 til xx:30

Hence: 3.3kwh+3.8kwh = 7.1kwh consumed from xx:00 til xx+1:00

Additional notes:

kwh (wh) is the AMOUNT of power consumed

kw (w) is the current instant value of load

Tks

So 3.3kwh at xx:30 means: it was 3.3kwh consumed from xx:00 til xx:30

3.3 kwH is 3.3 kw for an hour? If it shows 3.3 for that half hour, if thats the RATE of 3.3 kWhour, the 30 minute is half that? I.e. if it was 3.3 kWh rate for 30 minutes, then continues at 3.3kWh rate for the second thirty minutes, its 3.3kWh for the hour?

I understand that 3.3kWh is the amount of power used in one at @ 3.3kw If I used it at that rate of 33kWh for 30 minutes, then how much is that?

zerkms

124 posts

Master Geek
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#2261968 21-Jun-2019 14:24

tdgeek:

3.3 kwH is 3.3 kw for an hour? If it shows 3.3 for that half hour, if thats the RATE of 3.3 kWhour, the 30 minute is half that? I.e. if it was 3.3 kWh rate for 30 minutes, then continues at 3.3kWh rate for the second thirty minutes, its 3.3kWh for the hour?

I understand that 3.3kWh is the amount of power used in one at @ 3.3kw If I used it at that rate of 33kWh for 30 minutes, then how much is that?

3.3kwh is amount of work a load of 3.3kw could do in an hour. It can be done quicker, if the load is higher. If you put a load of 33kw for 6 minutes (1/10th of an hour) it would result in the same amount of work: 3.3kwh

So if you have had an even load, to consume 3.3kwh in 30 minutes you should have had an appliance(s) rated 6.6kw making a consistent load for straight 30 minutes.

tdgeek

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#2261990 21-Jun-2019 14:55

zerkms:

tdgeek:

3.3 kwH is 3.3 kw for an hour? If it shows 3.3 for that half hour, if thats the RATE of 3.3 kWhour, the 30 minute is half that? I.e. if it was 3.3 kWh rate for 30 minutes, then continues at 3.3kWh rate for the second thirty minutes, its 3.3kWh for the hour?

I understand that 3.3kWh is the amount of power used in one at @ 3.3kw If I used it at that rate of 33kWh for 30 minutes, then how much is that?

3.3kwh is amount of work a load of 3.3kw could do in an hour. It can be done quicker, if the load is higher. If you put a load of 33kw for 6 minutes (1/10th of an hour) it would result in the same amount of work: 3.3kwh

So if you have had an even load, to consume 3.3kwh in 30 minutes you should have had an appliance(s) rated 6.6kw making a consistent load for straight 30 minutes.

Cheers

Ive no doubt you an EK are correct, just getting my head around it. 7.1 woudl be about right, I have both elements of my HW going for the free hour (I have Solar HW) that's a free top up. Probably one of the heatpumps as well

Thanks again

heapsort

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Master Geek
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#2270015 4-Jul-2019 17:01

Anyone else on Fixie considering a switch to Freestyle?

I have been on Fixie for a while now, and got an email this week informing me it will automatically renew for another 6 months at the same price soon unless I choose to move back to Freestyle.

Spot prices appear to have been reasonably stable recently, certainly a lot lower than this time last year, but the high hydro lake levels are dropping back towards the historical mean.

tdgeek

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#2270102 4-Jul-2019 18:32

heapsort:

Anyone else on Fixie considering a switch to Freestyle?

I have been on Fixie for a while now, and got an email this week informing me it will automatically renew for another 6 months at the same price soon unless I choose to move back to Freestyle.

Spot prices appear to have been reasonably stable recently, certainly a lot lower than this time last year, but the high hydro lake levels are dropping back towards the historical mean.

Why not take the Fixie?

heapsort

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Master Geek
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#2270129 4-Jul-2019 19:49

I will probably stay with the Fixie plan for a while yet, but I originally joined Flick for what's now called the Freestyle plan (before there was Fixie) and on principle I'd like to be back on it when market conditions are suitable. Not necessarily waiting for Freestyle to be clearly lower cost than Fixie, just for it to be without too much risk of excessive spikes.

tdgeek

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#2270130 4-Jul-2019 19:54

heapsort:

I will probably stay with the Fixie plan for a while yet, but I originally joined Flick for what's now called the Freestyle plan (before there was Fixie) and on principle I'd like to be back on it when market conditions are suitable. Not necessarily waiting for Freestyle to be clearly lower cost than Fixie, just for it to be without too much risk of excessive spikes.

What gets me is that Flick offer spot. Cheaper. Maybe they have spikes. If every user was able to "flick" to and from every 40 minutes it will go broke. Then you all go back to Genesis, no gain. Innovation loses.

heapsort

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Master Geek
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#2270136 4-Jul-2019 20:08

tdgeek:

heapsort:

I will probably stay with the Fixie plan for a while yet, but I originally joined Flick for what's now called the Freestyle plan (before there was Fixie) and on principle I'd like to be back on it when market conditions are suitable. Not necessarily waiting for Freestyle to be clearly lower cost than Fixie, just for it to be without too much risk of excessive spikes.

What gets me is that Flick offer spot. Cheaper. Maybe they have spikes. If every user was able to "flick" to and from every 40 minutes it will go broke. Then you all go back to Genesis, no gain. Innovation loses.

Not sure how that relates to my comment. I'm happy to stay with Flick because of their innovation, not looking to switch between their plans often. And Genesis? Ha, no, never.

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