handheld bidet - backflow preventer

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#1065027 13-Jun-2014 16:20

greenbone: got a callback from Reece plumbing; their advice is a dual check valve with 25mm air break, p# 104553, rrp $48.50+gst. think i will proceed

that is not bad.

i also prefer washing rather than smearing.

thanks

greenbone

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#1065043 13-Jun-2014 17:04

link to the product if anyone is interested

farcus

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#1065052 13-Jun-2014 17:16

greenbone: link to the product if anyone is interested

wouldn't something like this be much better?

hand held seems a bit yuk!

oxnsox

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#1065070 13-Jun-2014 17:32

Alternatively you could take the hand unit feed from the toilet header tank (which by default provides the required seperation). A simple partion in the tank would ensure you retained a separate supply that woulnt be used in the flush.
And you probably wouldn't need a plumber to do it legally.

nakedmolerat

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#1065115 13-Jun-2014 18:25

farcus:
greenbone: link to the product if anyone is interested

wouldn't something like this be much better?

hand held seems a bit yuk!

No! No!

Have you used one? They have this in one of the 5 star hotel I stayed. I don't like it. Handheld is much better.

farcus

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#1065301 14-Jun-2014 00:22

nakedmolerat:
farcus:
greenbone: link to the product if anyone is interested

wouldn't something like this be much better?

hand held seems a bit yuk!

No! No!

Have you used one? They have this in one of the 5 star hotel I stayed. I don't like it. Handheld is much better.

I'm a bit OCD when it comes to toilet hygiene.
The idea of touching something that a previous person had been handling and holding inside the toilet just after they have finished their business would have me breaking out in a cold sweat!!!

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Aredwood

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#1065302 14-Jun-2014 00:29

greenbone: thanks for replies

Aredwood, lets say for a second, purely theoretically, that compliance and legalities dont exist ...

would you personally trust a check valve fitted between the cistern tap and bitdet attachment to prevent backwater contamination in 99% of cases?

Short answer - NO.

The long answer - Here are the rules regarding backflow prevention in NZ. http://www.dbh.govt.nz/UserFiles/File/Publications/Building/Compliance-documents/G12-water-supplies-3rd-edition-amendment-8.pdf Start reading from page 18. But the short hazard definitions: If it could kill you - then it is a high hazard. If it could make you sick but not kill you - medium hazard. If it could give the water a bad taste, sell ect, but not make you sick - low hazard.

Im sure that everyone here will agree that if you were to drink the water out of a toilet bowl. You could at least expect to get sick. And the most likely way that the water could backflow. Is often the spray heads start to leak so people leave them in the toilet bowl. The council will then turn off the street main temporally. Or in the case of an apartment building or another communal property. A plumber will turn off the water to the whole complex. This will cause negative pressures to form in the pipes which will suck the water through the leaking spray head back into the water pipes. Also there are fittings out there which seal fine with positive pressures but leak with negative pressures. Garden hose clip on fittings are the worst for that.

And here is the US Environmental Protection Agency backflow prevention manual. Which is also recognised in NZ. http://water.epa.gov/infrastructure/drinkingwater/pws/crossconnectioncontrol/upload/2003_04_09_crossconnection_crossconnection.pdf Start reading from page 8 for a whole chapter on backflow stuff ups. That cover everything from blood, pesticides, Propane gas (LPG), creosote, seawater ect ending up in public watermains. And yes plenty of similar ones have happened in NZ. As well as the dairy factory one. There has been paint in the watermains in the Rosebank rd area in West Auckland. Water from a spa pool in a massage parlour, again in Auckland but don't know where. A blue chemical coming out of drinking fountains at a primary school. A storage pond for irrigation water getting accidental pumped into the main. And at least 2 cases caused by someone leaving the toilet sprayer sitting in the toilet bowl. 1 of them was only discovered because the occupiers were wondering why the water in the toilet bowl kept disappearing.

Aredwood

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#1065303 14-Jun-2014 00:51

greenbone: got a callback from Reece plumbing; their advice is a dual check valve with 25mm air break, p# 104553, rrp $48.50+gst. think i will proceed

If you don't mind could you please tell me which Reece branch you were dealing with and the persons name. They clearly shouldn't be giving out advice on backflow prevention. As that dual check valve is only rated for low hazards. Although I understand if you would rather not.

If anyone is considering getting the electronic type bidet. Consider one of these as this brand has inbuilt backflow prevention. (air gap type). www.cleanlet.co.nz/ I don't have any affiliation with them. Also toilet cisterns have air gap backflow prevention. So that is why you don't need backflow valves on toilet cisterns.

greenbone

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#1065509 14-Jun-2014 13:04

thanks for the detail Aredwood

Reece east tamaki was the branch, they said they had called a bidet supplier/installer and that part is what was recommended

greenbone

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#1065511 14-Jun-2014 13:13

oxnsox: Alternatively you could take the hand unit feed from the toilet header tank (which by default provides the required seperation). A simple partion in the tank would ensure you retained a separate supply that woulnt be used in the flush.
And you probably wouldn't need a plumber to do it legally.

needs a bit of pressure to do the job ... i would imagine gravity fed from the cistern is too weak

greenbone

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#1065513 14-Jun-2014 13:17

The idea of touching something that a previous person had been handling and holding inside the toilet just after they have finished their business would have me breaking out in a cold sweat!!!

things people touch between pooing and washing their hands:

- flush button
- toilet seat
- toilet lid
- tap handles

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nakedmolerat

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#1065571 14-Jun-2014 14:58

It is a known fact that phone is dirtier than toilet seat!

http://m.huffpost.com/ca/entry/3948311/

farcus

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#1065607 14-Jun-2014 15:58

nakedmolerat: It is a known fact that phone is dirtier than toilet seat!

http://m.huffpost.com/ca/entry/3948311/

this thread isn't about toilet seats

It's about an apparatus held by hand (that may have traces of faeces on it) inside a toilet to wash faeces from a rectum and then hung up to be used by the next person without any kind of sanitisation in-between.

driller2000

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#1065667 14-Jun-2014 18:14

andrewNZ: There was a case quite a few years back where (I think) a dairy factory managed to back feed the town supply with cleaning solution. Burned quite a few people from memory.

yep in wairoa i believe?

backflow is a serious risk - as stated above if the washline is for eg left in the bowl, you can get a break elsewhere in the mains network which can lead to negative pressure in the local distribution network - and it WILL suck stuff back into the potable system - SO NOT GOOD

so to the OP - if you do down this path make sure you get this done properly - for yours and our well being : /

EDIT - turns out I wasn't certain about the specific plant / industry

Aredwood

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#1065668 14-Jun-2014 18:15

If you have space to put it somewhere, Get one of these pumps http://www.trademe.co.nz/building-renovation/plumbing-gas/water-cylinders-heaters/auction-740338248.htm Connect the inlet of it so it will take water from the toilet cistern. Then the cistern will be providing backflow prevention. And you could add some cleaners / soap to the toilet cistern if you want to get the nether regions even cleaner that what you could with water alone.

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